From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Tue Oct 1 04:32:42 2002 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 11:08:54 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tha=EE?= Le Tat Subject: pb with datetostr This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------------7NhE3WuB9OnU6N9D2A0R5Y7 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In a local procedure, I have the following : #define FMT_LOGDATE 'YYYY/MM/DD HH:MI:SS' let $log = datetostr(datenow(),{FMT_LOGDATE}) display $log My output is : 2002.10.01 11.06.35 Why ? (I want to have something like 2002/10/01 11:06:35). Regards, Thai ------------7NhE3WuB9OnU6N9D2A0R5Y7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ce message contient des informations confidentielles ou appartenant au Cr=e9dit Lyonnais et est =e9tabli =e0 l'intention exclusive de ses destinataires. Toute divulgation, utilisation, diffusion ou reproduction (totale ou partielle) de ce message, ou des informations qu'il contient, doit =eatre pr=e9alablement autoris=e9e. Tout message =e9lectronique est susceptible d'alt=e9ration et son int=e9grit=e9 ne peut =eatre assur=e9e. Le Cr=e9dit Lyonnais d=e9cline toute responsabilit=e9 au titre de ce message s'il a =e9t=e9 modifi=e9 ou falsifi=e9. Si vous n'=eates pas destinataire de ce message, merci de le d=e9truire imm=e9diatement et d'avertir l'exp=e9diteur de l'erreur de distribution et de la destruction du message. Cr=e9dit Lyonnais, SA au capital de Euros 1.807.874.827 - RCS Lyon B 954 509 741 Si=e8ge Central : 19, boulevard des Italiens. 75002 Paris. France This e-mail contains confidential information or information belonging to Cr=e9dit Lyonnais and is intended solely for the addressees. The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either whole or partial) of this e-mail, or any information it contains, is prohibited. E-mails are susceptible to alteration and their integrity cannot be guaranteed. Cr=e9dit Lyonnais shall not be liable for this e-mail if modified or falsified. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, please delete it immediately from your system and notify the sender of the wrong delivery and the mail deletion. Cr=e9dit Lyonnais SA. Share Capital of Euros 1.807.874.827. Registered Office : Lyon (B 954 509 741) Central and administative Office : 19, boulevard des Italiens. 75002 Paris. France. ------------7NhE3WuB9OnU6N9D2A0R5Y7-- From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Tue Oct 1 18:00:18 2002 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:36:57 -0700 From: David Thorburn Subject: Re: pb with datetostr Please check the section of your SQR Manual under Edit Masks. Regards, David ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thaî Le Tat" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 2:08 AM Subject: pb with datetostr > > In a local procedure, I have the following : > > #define FMT_LOGDATE 'YYYY/MM/DD HH:MI:SS' > let $log = datetostr(datenow(),{FMT_LOGDATE}) > display $log > > My output is : > 2002.10.01 11.06.35 > > Why ? > > (I want to have something like 2002/10/01 11:06:35). > > Regards, > Thai > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Ce message contient des informations confidentielles ou appartenant au Crédit Lyonnais et est établi à l'intention exclusive de ses destinataires. Toute divulgation, utilisation, diffusion ou reproduction (totale ou partielle) de ce message, ou des informations qu'il contient, doit être préalablement autorisée. Tout message électronique est susceptible d'altération et son intégrité ne peut être assurée. Le Crédit Lyonnais décline toute responsabilité au titre de ce message s'il a été modifié ou falsifié. Si vous n'êtes pas destinataire de ce message, merci de le détruire immédiatement et d'avertir l'expéditeur de l'erreur de distribution et de la destruction du message. Crédit Lyonnais, SA au capital de Euros 1.807.874.827 - RCS Lyon B 954 509 741 Siège Central : 19, boulevard des Italiens. 75002 Paris. France This e-mail contains confidential information or information belonging to Crédit Lyonnais and is intended solely for the addressees. The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either whole or partial) of this e-mail, or any information it contains, is prohibited. E-mails are susceptible to alteration and their integrity cannot be guaranteed. Crédit Lyonnais shall not be liable for this e-mail if modified or falsified. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, please delete it immediately from your system and notify the sender of the wrong delivery and the mail deletion. Crédit Lyonnais SA. Share Capital of Euros 1.807.874.827. Registered Office : Lyon (B 954 509 741) Central and administative Office : 19, boulevard des Italiens. 75002 Paris. France. From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Tue Oct 1 05:39:51 2002 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 06:22:39 -0400 From: Pamela Lantzy Subject: Dynamic SQL - From clause I have seen this in a couple SQRs, but I am not sure what this does. FROM [PS_COMMUNICATION:$table] V $table gets populated with a different table name. There isnt a comma to separate the 2 tables. In the where clause there is nothing that joins these 2 tables together. Is if $table is not assigned a table name then it will use PS_COMMUNICATION as an alternative, but if $table is assigned, it will use that and ignore PS_COMMUNICATION? I couldnt find any explainations of using : in the from. Thanks. Pam From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Tue Oct 1 06:22:37 2002 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 06:58:29 -0400 From: Peter Burton Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Pamela, The [{table_name}:$Table_name] construct directs SQR to use {table_name} at compile time to validate the BEGIN-SELECT paragraph and uses the contents of $Table_name at runtime. Peter -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Lantzy [mailto:PLantzy@UAMAIL.ALBANY.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 6:23 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Dynamic SQL - From clause I have seen this in a couple SQRs, but I am not sure what this does. FROM [PS_COMMUNICATION:$table] V $table gets populated with a different table name. There isnt a comma to separate the 2 tables. In the where clause there is nothing that joins these 2 tables together. Is if $table is not assigned a table name then it will use PS_COMMUNICATION as an alternative, but if $table is assigned, it will use that and ignore PS_COMMUNICATION? I couldnt find any explainations of using : in the from. Thanks. Pam From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Wed Oct 2 07:45:54 2002 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:26:18 -0400 From: Pamela Lantzy Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Thanks for the explaination -----Original Message----- From: Peter Burton [mailto:pburton@BRIO.COM] Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 6:58 AM To: SQR-USERS@LIST.IEX.NET Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Pamela, The [{table_name}:$Table_name] construct directs SQR to use {table_name} at compile time to validate the BEGIN-SELECT paragraph and uses the contents of $Table_name at runtime. Peter -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Lantzy [mailto:PLantzy@UAMAIL.ALBANY.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 6:23 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Dynamic SQL - From clause I have seen this in a couple SQRs, but I am not sure what this does. FROM [PS_COMMUNICATION:$table] V $table gets populated with a different table name. There isnt a comma to separate the 2 tables. In the where clause there is nothing that joins these 2 tables together. Is if $table is not assigned a table name then it will use PS_COMMUNICATION as an alternative, but if $table is assigned, it will use that and ignore PS_COMMUNICATION? I couldnt find any explainations of using : in the from. Thanks. Pam From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Wed Oct 2 09:03:31 2002 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:33:55 -0500 From: "Knapp, Richard" Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Peter, What version of SQR does this feature appear in? Thanks, Richard Knapp Database Programmer/Analyst Administrative Systems Project University of Missouri System 573-884-3157 knappr@umsystem.edu -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Lantzy [mailto:PLantzy@UAMAIL.ALBANY.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 7:26 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Thanks for the explaination -----Original Message----- From: Peter Burton [mailto:pburton@BRIO.COM] Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 6:58 AM To: SQR-USERS@LIST.IEX.NET Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Pamela, The [{table_name}:$Table_name] construct directs SQR to use {table_name} at compile time to validate the BEGIN-SELECT paragraph and uses the contents of $Table_name at runtime. Peter -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Lantzy [mailto:PLantzy@UAMAIL.ALBANY.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 6:23 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Dynamic SQL - From clause I have seen this in a couple SQRs, but I am not sure what this does. FROM [PS_COMMUNICATION:$table] V $table gets populated with a different table name. There isnt a comma to separate the 2 tables. In the where clause there is nothing that joins these 2 tables together. Is if $table is not assigned a table name then it will use PS_COMMUNICATION as an alternative, but if $table is assigned, it will use that and ignore PS_COMMUNICATION? I couldnt find any explainations of using : in the from. Thanks. Pam From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Wed Oct 2 09:17:33 2002 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 06:48:38 -0700 From: Peter Burton Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Richard, I would guess since version 2.x (~1989). The earliest book I have is from SQR 3 and this feature is discussed on Page 51. Page -----Original Message----- From: Knapp, Richard [mailto:KnappR@UMSYSTEM.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 9:34 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Peter, What version of SQR does this feature appear in? Thanks, Richard Knapp Database Programmer/Analyst Administrative Systems Project University of Missouri System 573-884-3157 knappr@umsystem.edu -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Lantzy [mailto:PLantzy@UAMAIL.ALBANY.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 7:26 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Thanks for the explaination -----Original Message----- From: Peter Burton [mailto:pburton@BRIO.COM] Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 6:58 AM To: SQR-USERS@LIST.IEX.NET Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Pamela, The [{table_name}:$Table_name] construct directs SQR to use {table_name} at compile time to validate the BEGIN-SELECT paragraph and uses the contents of $Table_name at runtime. Peter -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Lantzy [mailto:PLantzy@UAMAIL.ALBANY.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 6:23 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Dynamic SQL - From clause I have seen this in a couple SQRs, but I am not sure what this does. FROM [PS_COMMUNICATION:$table] V $table gets populated with a different table name. There isnt a comma to separate the 2 tables. In the where clause there is nothing that joins these 2 tables together. Is if $table is not assigned a table name then it will use PS_COMMUNICATION as an alternative, but if $table is assigned, it will use that and ignore PS_COMMUNICATION? I couldnt find any explainations of using : in the from. Thanks. Pam From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Wed Oct 2 09:26:40 2002 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:05:36 -0500 From: "Knapp, Richard" Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Hmmmm. My documentation is for 4.3 and I can't find mention of this feature. I'm assuming that it would be discussed either in the begin-select, begin-sql or dynamic SQL sections. I'm looking in both the 'Language Reference' and 'User Guide'. I hate to trouble you, but could you say, rather than the page number, what section of what manual the discussion occurs in? Many Thanks. Richard -----Original Message----- From: Peter Burton [mailto:pburton@BRIO.COM] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 8:49 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Richard, I would guess since version 2.x (~1989). The earliest book I have is from SQR 3 and this feature is discussed on Page 51. Page -----Original Message----- From: Knapp, Richard [mailto:KnappR@UMSYSTEM.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 9:34 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Peter, What version of SQR does this feature appear in? Thanks, Richard Knapp Database Programmer/Analyst Administrative Systems Project University of Missouri System 573-884-3157 knappr@umsystem.edu -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Lantzy [mailto:PLantzy@UAMAIL.ALBANY.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 7:26 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Thanks for the explaination -----Original Message----- From: Peter Burton [mailto:pburton@BRIO.COM] Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 6:58 AM To: SQR-USERS@LIST.IEX.NET Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Pamela, The [{table_name}:$Table_name] construct directs SQR to use {table_name} at compile time to validate the BEGIN-SELECT paragraph and uses the contents of $Table_name at runtime. Peter -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Lantzy [mailto:PLantzy@UAMAIL.ALBANY.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 6:23 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Dynamic SQL - From clause I have seen this in a couple SQRs, but I am not sure what this does. FROM [PS_COMMUNICATION:$table] V $table gets populated with a different table name. There isnt a comma to separate the 2 tables. In the where clause there is nothing that joins these 2 tables together. Is if $table is not assigned a table name then it will use PS_COMMUNICATION as an alternative, but if $table is assigned, it will use that and ignore PS_COMMUNICATION? I couldnt find any explainations of using : in the from. Thanks. Pam From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Wed Oct 2 10:02:50 2002 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:28:35 -0400 From: Paul Hoyte Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Richard: Look at page 49 in the reference manual for version 4.3.......bottom half of the page.... Paul Hoyte Sharidionne Inc. (248) 559-6868 Email: phoyte@sharidionne.com -----Original Message----- From: Discussion of SQR, Brio Software's database reporting language [mailto:SQR-USERS@list.iex.net] On Behalf Of Knapp, Richard Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 10:06 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Hmmmm. My documentation is for 4.3 and I can't find mention of this feature. I'm assuming that it would be discussed either in the begin-select, begin-sql or dynamic SQL sections. I'm looking in both the 'Language Reference' and 'User Guide'. I hate to trouble you, but could you say, rather than the page number, what section of what manual the discussion occurs in? Many Thanks. Richard -----Original Message----- From: Peter Burton [mailto:pburton@BRIO.COM] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 8:49 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Richard, I would guess since version 2.x (~1989). The earliest book I have is from SQR 3 and this feature is discussed on Page 51. Page -----Original Message----- From: Knapp, Richard [mailto:KnappR@UMSYSTEM.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 9:34 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Peter, What version of SQR does this feature appear in? Thanks, Richard Knapp Database Programmer/Analyst Administrative Systems Project University of Missouri System 573-884-3157 knappr@umsystem.edu -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Lantzy [mailto:PLantzy@UAMAIL.ALBANY.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 7:26 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Thanks for the explaination -----Original Message----- From: Peter Burton [mailto:pburton@BRIO.COM] Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 6:58 AM To: SQR-USERS@LIST.IEX.NET Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Pamela, The [{table_name}:$Table_name] construct directs SQR to use {table_name} at compile time to validate the BEGIN-SELECT paragraph and uses the contents of $Table_name at runtime. Peter -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Lantzy [mailto:PLantzy@UAMAIL.ALBANY.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 6:23 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Dynamic SQL - From clause I have seen this in a couple SQRs, but I am not sure what this does. FROM [PS_COMMUNICATION:$table] V $table gets populated with a different table name. There isnt a comma to separate the 2 tables. In the where clause there is nothing that joins these 2 tables together. Is if $table is not assigned a table name then it will use PS_COMMUNICATION as an alternative, but if $table is assigned, it will use that and ignore PS_COMMUNICATION? I couldnt find any explainations of using : in the from. Thanks. Pam From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Wed Oct 2 10:02:52 2002 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:34:29 -0400 From: Peter Burton Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Richard, You love to rouble me ... It appears twix Version 3 manuals and Version 4 (and beyond) the explanation of the construct FROM [{table_name} : $table_name] was lost. As I said it was on page 51 located in Chapter 2 "Working with SQR" in the "SQR3 Workbench, SQR User's Guide, Version 3.0" book. I can fax you a copy of the page if you like. Peter -----Original Message----- From: Knapp, Richard [mailto:KnappR@UMSYSTEM.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 10:06 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Hmmmm. My documentation is for 4.3 and I can't find mention of this feature. I'm assuming that it would be discussed either in the begin-select, begin-sql or dynamic SQL sections. I'm looking in both the 'Language Reference' and 'User Guide'. I hate to trouble you, but could you say, rather than the page number, what section of what manual the discussion occurs in? Many Thanks. Richard -----Original Message----- From: Peter Burton [mailto:pburton@BRIO.COM] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 8:49 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Richard, I would guess since version 2.x (~1989). The earliest book I have is from SQR 3 and this feature is discussed on Page 51. Page -----Original Message----- From: Knapp, Richard [mailto:KnappR@UMSYSTEM.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 9:34 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Peter, What version of SQR does this feature appear in? Thanks, Richard Knapp Database Programmer/Analyst Administrative Systems Project University of Missouri System 573-884-3157 knappr@umsystem.edu -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Lantzy [mailto:PLantzy@UAMAIL.ALBANY.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 7:26 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Thanks for the explaination -----Original Message----- From: Peter Burton [mailto:pburton@BRIO.COM] Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 6:58 AM To: SQR-USERS@LIST.IEX.NET Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Pamela, The [{table_name}:$Table_name] construct directs SQR to use {table_name} at compile time to validate the BEGIN-SELECT paragraph and uses the contents of $Table_name at runtime. Peter -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Lantzy [mailto:PLantzy@UAMAIL.ALBANY.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 6:23 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Dynamic SQL - From clause I have seen this in a couple SQRs, but I am not sure what this does. FROM [PS_COMMUNICATION:$table] V $table gets populated with a different table name. There isnt a comma to separate the 2 tables. In the where clause there is nothing that joins these 2 tables together. Is if $table is not assigned a table name then it will use PS_COMMUNICATION as an alternative, but if $table is assigned, it will use that and ignore PS_COMMUNICATION? I couldnt find any explainations of using : in the from. Thanks. Pam From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Wed Oct 2 10:17:19 2002 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:43:23 -0400 From: Peter Burton Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Paul, That form is for a fully dynamic table reference. That form forces SQR to suspend validation of the BEGIN-SELECT until runtime and therefore cannot use the database to provide the class of the select columns during the scan phase. Therefore, you need to specify the class (i.e. number, date) of columns which are not defined as characters. Peter -----Original Message----- From: Paul Hoyte [mailto:phoyte@SHARIDIONNE.COM] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 10:29 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Richard: Look at page 49 in the reference manual for version 4.3.......bottom half of the page.... Paul Hoyte Sharidionne Inc. (248) 559-6868 Email: phoyte@sharidionne.com -----Original Message----- From: Discussion of SQR, Brio Software's database reporting language [mailto:SQR-USERS@list.iex.net] On Behalf Of Knapp, Richard Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 10:06 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Hmmmm. My documentation is for 4.3 and I can't find mention of this feature. I'm assuming that it would be discussed either in the begin-select, begin-sql or dynamic SQL sections. I'm looking in both the 'Language Reference' and 'User Guide'. I hate to trouble you, but could you say, rather than the page number, what section of what manual the discussion occurs in? Many Thanks. Richard -----Original Message----- From: Peter Burton [mailto:pburton@BRIO.COM] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 8:49 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Richard, I would guess since version 2.x (~1989). The earliest book I have is from SQR 3 and this feature is discussed on Page 51. Page -----Original Message----- From: Knapp, Richard [mailto:KnappR@UMSYSTEM.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 9:34 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Peter, What version of SQR does this feature appear in? Thanks, Richard Knapp Database Programmer/Analyst Administrative Systems Project University of Missouri System 573-884-3157 knappr@umsystem.edu -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Lantzy [mailto:PLantzy@UAMAIL.ALBANY.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 7:26 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Thanks for the explaination -----Original Message----- From: Peter Burton [mailto:pburton@BRIO.COM] Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 6:58 AM To: SQR-USERS@LIST.IEX.NET Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Pamela, The [{table_name}:$Table_name] construct directs SQR to use {table_name} at compile time to validate the BEGIN-SELECT paragraph and uses the contents of $Table_name at runtime. Peter -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Lantzy [mailto:PLantzy@UAMAIL.ALBANY.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 6:23 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Dynamic SQL - From clause I have seen this in a couple SQRs, but I am not sure what this does. FROM [PS_COMMUNICATION:$table] V $table gets populated with a different table name. There isnt a comma to separate the 2 tables. In the where clause there is nothing that joins these 2 tables together. Is if $table is not assigned a table name then it will use PS_COMMUNICATION as an alternative, but if $table is assigned, it will use that and ignore PS_COMMUNICATION? I couldnt find any explainations of using : in the from. Thanks. Pam From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Wed Oct 2 14:47:04 2002 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 14:24:23 -0500 From: "Knapp, Richard" Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Peter, No need. Thanks. I feared I might be losing my mind (again) when I couldn't find mention of it. Richard -----Original Message----- From: Peter Burton [mailto:pburton@BRIO.COM] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 9:34 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Richard, You love to rouble me ... It appears twix Version 3 manuals and Version 4 (and beyond) the explanation of the construct FROM [{table_name} : $table_name] was lost. As I said it was on page 51 located in Chapter 2 "Working with SQR" in the "SQR3 Workbench, SQR User's Guide, Version 3.0" book. I can fax you a copy of the page if you like. Peter -----Original Message----- From: Knapp, Richard [mailto:KnappR@UMSYSTEM.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 10:06 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Hmmmm. My documentation is for 4.3 and I can't find mention of this feature. I'm assuming that it would be discussed either in the begin-select, begin-sql or dynamic SQL sections. I'm looking in both the 'Language Reference' and 'User Guide'. I hate to trouble you, but could you say, rather than the page number, what section of what manual the discussion occurs in? Many Thanks. Richard -----Original Message----- From: Peter Burton [mailto:pburton@BRIO.COM] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 8:49 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Richard, I would guess since version 2.x (~1989). The earliest book I have is from SQR 3 and this feature is discussed on Page 51. Page -----Original Message----- From: Knapp, Richard [mailto:KnappR@UMSYSTEM.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 9:34 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Peter, What version of SQR does this feature appear in? Thanks, Richard Knapp Database Programmer/Analyst Administrative Systems Project University of Missouri System 573-884-3157 knappr@umsystem.edu -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Lantzy [mailto:PLantzy@UAMAIL.ALBANY.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 7:26 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Thanks for the explaination -----Original Message----- From: Peter Burton [mailto:pburton@BRIO.COM] Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 6:58 AM To: SQR-USERS@LIST.IEX.NET Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Pamela, The [{table_name}:$Table_name] construct directs SQR to use {table_name} at compile time to validate the BEGIN-SELECT paragraph and uses the contents of $Table_name at runtime. Peter -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Lantzy [mailto:PLantzy@UAMAIL.ALBANY.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 6:23 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Dynamic SQL - From clause I have seen this in a couple SQRs, but I am not sure what this does. FROM [PS_COMMUNICATION:$table] V $table gets populated with a different table name. There isnt a comma to separate the 2 tables. In the where clause there is nothing that joins these 2 tables together. Is if $table is not assigned a table name then it will use PS_COMMUNICATION as an alternative, but if $table is assigned, it will use that and ignore PS_COMMUNICATION? I couldnt find any explainations of using : in the from. Thanks. Pam From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Wed Oct 2 14:52:32 2002 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 14:27:23 -0500 From: "Knapp, Richard" Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Hi Paul, Is the reference you mention an example for the preceding description of begin-select? If so, we are on the same page (as they say) and I don't see the construct. Could be blinder that usual. Richard -----Original Message----- From: Paul Hoyte [mailto:phoyte@SHARIDIONNE.COM] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 9:29 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Richard: Look at page 49 in the reference manual for version 4.3.......bottom half of the page.... Paul Hoyte Sharidionne Inc. (248) 559-6868 Email: phoyte@sharidionne.com -----Original Message----- From: Discussion of SQR, Brio Software's database reporting language [mailto:SQR-USERS@list.iex.net] On Behalf Of Knapp, Richard Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 10:06 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Hmmmm. My documentation is for 4.3 and I can't find mention of this feature. I'm assuming that it would be discussed either in the begin-select, begin-sql or dynamic SQL sections. I'm looking in both the 'Language Reference' and 'User Guide'. I hate to trouble you, but could you say, rather than the page number, what section of what manual the discussion occurs in? Many Thanks. Richard -----Original Message----- From: Peter Burton [mailto:pburton@BRIO.COM] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 8:49 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Richard, I would guess since version 2.x (~1989). The earliest book I have is from SQR 3 and this feature is discussed on Page 51. Page -----Original Message----- From: Knapp, Richard [mailto:KnappR@UMSYSTEM.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 9:34 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Peter, What version of SQR does this feature appear in? Thanks, Richard Knapp Database Programmer/Analyst Administrative Systems Project University of Missouri System 573-884-3157 knappr@umsystem.edu -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Lantzy [mailto:PLantzy@UAMAIL.ALBANY.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 7:26 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Thanks for the explaination -----Original Message----- From: Peter Burton [mailto:pburton@BRIO.COM] Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 6:58 AM To: SQR-USERS@LIST.IEX.NET Subject: Re: Dynamic SQL - From clause Pamela, The [{table_name}:$Table_name] construct directs SQR to use {table_name} at compile time to validate the BEGIN-SELECT paragraph and uses the contents of $Table_name at runtime. Peter -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Lantzy [mailto:PLantzy@UAMAIL.ALBANY.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 6:23 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Dynamic SQL - From clause I have seen this in a couple SQRs, but I am not sure what this does. FROM [PS_COMMUNICATION:$table] V $table gets populated with a different table name. There isnt a comma to separate the 2 tables. In the where clause there is nothing that joins these 2 tables together. Is if $table is not assigned a table name then it will use PS_COMMUNICATION as an alternative, but if $table is assigned, it will use that and ignore PS_COMMUNICATION? I couldnt find any explainations of using : in the from. Thanks. Pam From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Tue Oct 1 05:46:31 2002 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 06:27:37 -0400 From: Pamela Lantzy Subject: print-image - use of variables Is it possible to use variables in PRINT-IMAGE for source? I didnt want to hardcode the path of the image. I tried using a variable and using a #define but neither worked. print-image (75,80) type = hpgl-file source = 'exact path to image file' image-size = (30,5) What have others done? We have different directory structures for each environment. Thanks, Pam From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Tue Oct 1 06:27:03 2002 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 04:01:38 -0700 From: Peter Burton Subject: Re: print-image - use of variables Pamela, Yes ... If you can use a string literal you should be able to use a string variable with the PRINT-IMAGE command. What error/effect are you seeing when using a string variable versus a string literal? What version of SQR? What platform and OS version? Peter -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Lantzy [mailto:PLantzy@UAMAIL.ALBANY.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 6:28 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: print-image - use of variables Is it possible to use variables in PRINT-IMAGE for source? I didnt want to hardcode the path of the image. I tried using a variable and using a #define but neither worked. print-image (75,80) type = hpgl-file source = 'exact path to image file' image-size = (30,5) What have others done? We have different directory structures for each environment. Thanks, Pam From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Tue Oct 1 05:59:07 2002 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 12:33:53 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tha=EE?= Le Tat Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9f=2E_=3A_pb_with_datetostr?= This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------------7NhE3WuB9OnU6N9D2A0R5Y7 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I've found the problem. My "sqr.ini" file was wrong. DATE-SEPARATOR =3D '.' TIME-SEPARATOR =3D '.' Regards, Thai Tha=EE Le Tat 01/10/2002 11:08 Pour : SQR-USERS@list.iex.net cc : Objet : pb with datetostr In a local procedure, I have the following : #define FMT_LOGDATE 'YYYY/MM/DD HH:MI:SS' let $log =3D datetostr(datenow(),{FMT_LOGDATE}) display $log My output is : 2002.10.01 11.06.35 Why ? (I want to have something like 2002/10/01 11:06:35). 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France. ------------7NhE3WuB9OnU6N9D2A0R5Y7-- From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Tue Oct 1 12:43:22 2002 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:22:20 -0400 From: Vipul Patel Subject: Re: Changing Fonts I think in connection with alter-printer also use declare-printer and set printer = hp then only u will be able to do it -----Original Message----- From: Discussion of SQR, Brio Software's database reporting language [mailto:SQR-USERS@LIST.IEX.NET]On Behalf Of Harris, Sam Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 3:49 PM To: SQR-USERS@LIST.IEX.NET Subject: Re: Changing Fonts Yes. I have tried the alter-printer command, but it causes not change in my printout file. -----Original Message----- From: Vallabhu, Bindu [mailto:Bindu.Vallabhu@STAPLES.COM] Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 3:13 PM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Changing Fonts Have you tried using the 'Alter-printer command" alter-printer font=5 point-size=12 !Times Roman -----Original Message----- From: Harris, Sam [mailto:SVH@CDRH.FDA.GOV] Sent: 09/23/2002 2:24 PM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Changing Fonts My Client has requested that batch of reports that have print in Courier fonts be changed to print in Times New Roman 12. Can this be done in SQR? From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Tue Oct 1 15:01:47 2002 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 12:37:26 -0700 From: Allen Cunningham Subject: Re: Purpose of this list Chris - I certainly don't appreciate being lectured and scolded by you, and your patronizing little suggestion to take a PeopleTools class. If your having a bad day, find a better way to deal with it than venting on this board. This was posted late Fri afternoon, it certainly didn't generate a lot of 'noise' that you say you are so worried about. If you don't like a posting, ignore it. ac -----Original Message----- From: Discussion of SQR, Brio Software's database reporting language [mailto:SQR-USERS@list.iex.net]On Behalf Of Chris Bennett Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 4:15 PM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Purpose of this list Ken, That's an interesting question. Just for clarification let me point out that my primary concern was the potential trouble I foresaw Allen getting into if he tries to accomplish his goals by getting "step by step" instructions from this list. I thought it was a very valid and hopefully helpful answer to suggest that a class might be in his best interest. However, it is true that I was also concerned about the signal/noise ratio of this list, and I took the opportunity to also suggest that perhaps not everyone on the list would like to read a question and answer about basic PeopleTools (please note, however, that even after I said his post was off-topic and that he would be better served by taking a class, that I still answered the question). Anyway, to attempt to answer your question... According the the mailing list "hints and guidelines" (http://www.sqrug.org/sqr-users/sqr-users-hints.html), the only sections that directly refer to "etiquette" are the following: 1) "keep in mind that over 500 people will receive your message, and that it will appear in the list archives. Try to keep your messages on-topic and relatively short. Consider sending your message directly to particular people if it won't interest many of the list's subscribers." 2) "Please do not post job announcements on the sqr-users list, but use the sqr-jobs list instead. (See Related Mailing Lists for more information on this list.) A large number of sqr-users subscribers do not want to receive job announcements (for various reasons) and such posts tend to cause a lot of disruption of the discussion on the list." One could also read section 4.2 "Posting a Message" as strongly implying that messages posted here should relate specifically to SQR. Aside from this, I don't know what the "position" here is any more than you do (and as I'll explain below, to some extent it really doesn't matter), but I'll offer up my opinions. I'll start with two assumptions. These may be debatable, but I'll throw them out as a starting point: 1) Most people on this list are (more or less) well paid professionals 2) If there is too much noise the "gurus" that monitor this list will lose interest and leave. Given these assumptions, I have the following opinions: I don't want to be used as someone else's gopher for basic reference materials, and I suspect that other people on this list would rather not be used for that purpose either. While I enjoy helping someone who truly has a difficult or unusual problem, doing other people's work for them goes beyond the call of duty. Time is, indeed, of the essence for many of us, as you say. But why would one person's time be more important than mine? I also rely on this list as a resource to help out with any big problems I might run into, so I'm glad there are some very skilled and knowledgeable people that monitor this list. I would be really disappointed to see them leave because this list degenerated into some sort of off-topic "how to program" tutorial group. This list is not moderated, so it is neither democratic (moderator chosen by vote) nor totalitarian (moderator is the list admin, Ray Ontko). Anarchy seems more accurate. As such, anyone can really post whatever they want, and we each make our own decision as to whether it is worth sticking around based on our own needs. We can all decide as a group that job posting are taboo, but we know full well that some people will still post them anyway. So all I can say is this: I would prefer that we stay generally on topic. And I would prefer that we not be deluged with trivial questions that are asked just to save someone else's time at the expense of my time. But these are my preferences based on my needs. If you or anyone else feels that it would be a good idea to encourage people to post off-topic or trivial questions, just consider what long-term utility you will be getting from this list. There's probably no point to debating this. Its not as if any decision would be binding, and this really could just be considered more "noise" on the list anyway. Each person can make up their own mind and do as they wish. Personally, I'm not going to whine about every post that goes off-topic or asks something really trivial, nor will I send nasty notes to people who post jobs here. Its not worth it and doesn't help in any case. But now and then I think its worthwhile to point out that this list is only as useful as we make it. Chris On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Ken Boettger wrote: > Chris, > > I am not certain I agree with this precept. It is a controversial one and a common one, I know. But I wonder if it is an appropriate view. I quess I am a proponent of the "there is no stupid or silly questions" and that forums are a place of learning. > > In addition, I have been in IT for 15 years and work with many languages and tools. It is very hard to keep everything straight. Many times I will go to a list to get an answer to a simple issue that I cannot recall the answer too. Yes, the answer is in the FAQ or in the manuals. And I think they should be encouraged, but not enforced. The reason being that time is of the essence for many of us. On many occassions (both in the public and private sector), I will post a question and then proceed with something else until a response comes back. From a statistical point of view, it might take me 5 or 10 minutes to find and read through a FAQ or manual before I find an anwser (if I can even remember where the manual is - or who borrowed it last). Using a forum or list, I maybe type a concise question for 30 seconds, then spend another minute reading the responses - the point here being that a five fold increase in efficiency is significant from a temporal, financial and pro! fe! > ssional point of view. > > My question is, what is the position here? I believe in democracy and will go either way. But I have on many occasions posted simple questions to this list. If such questions are not welcome, I will stop using this forum in that regard. And maybe we should consider an additional forum that subscribes to a more open view including novice type questions? There is a definitely a need for such a forum. > > -Ken > > Ken Boettger > boettgek@cwu.edu > http://www.cwu.edu/~boettgek > x2944 From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Tue Oct 1 15:40:11 2002 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:02:39 -0500 From: "Aaron M. Reiff" Subject: Re: Purpose of this list Perhaps we should all move on. All points seems to have been expressed, aired and otherwise worn-out. Does anyone have anything productive and non-threatening to say regarding this issue before we return to the business at hand? -----Original Message----- From: Discussion of SQR, Brio Software's database reporting language [mailto:SQR-USERS@list.iex.net]On Behalf Of Allen Cunningham Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 2:37 PM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Purpose of this list Chris - I certainly don't appreciate being lectured and scolded by you, and your patronizing little suggestion to take a PeopleTools class. If your having a bad day, find a better way to deal with it than venting on this board. This was posted late Fri afternoon, it certainly didn't generate a lot of 'noise' that you say you are so worried about. If you don't like a posting, ignore it. ac -----Original Message----- From: Discussion of SQR, Brio Software's database reporting language [mailto:SQR-USERS@list.iex.net]On Behalf Of Chris Bennett Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 4:15 PM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Purpose of this list Ken, That's an interesting question. Just for clarification let me point out that my primary concern was the potential trouble I foresaw Allen getting into if he tries to accomplish his goals by getting "step by step" instructions from this list. I thought it was a very valid and hopefully helpful answer to suggest that a class might be in his best interest. However, it is true that I was also concerned about the signal/noise ratio of this list, and I took the opportunity to also suggest that perhaps not everyone on the list would like to read a question and answer about basic PeopleTools (please note, however, that even after I said his post was off-topic and that he would be better served by taking a class, that I still answered the question). Anyway, to attempt to answer your question... According the the mailing list "hints and guidelines" (http://www.sqrug.org/sqr-users/sqr-users-hints.html), the only sections that directly refer to "etiquette" are the following: 1) "keep in mind that over 500 people will receive your message, and that it will appear in the list archives. Try to keep your messages on-topic and relatively short. Consider sending your message directly to particular people if it won't interest many of the list's subscribers." 2) "Please do not post job announcements on the sqr-users list, but use the sqr-jobs list instead. (See Related Mailing Lists for more information on this list.) A large number of sqr-users subscribers do not want to receive job announcements (for various reasons) and such posts tend to cause a lot of disruption of the discussion on the list." One could also read section 4.2 "Posting a Message" as strongly implying that messages posted here should relate specifically to SQR. Aside from this, I don't know what the "position" here is any more than you do (and as I'll explain below, to some extent it really doesn't matter), but I'll offer up my opinions. I'll start with two assumptions. These may be debatable, but I'll throw them out as a starting point: 1) Most people on this list are (more or less) well paid professionals 2) If there is too much noise the "gurus" that monitor this list will lose interest and leave. Given these assumptions, I have the following opinions: I don't want to be used as someone else's gopher for basic reference materials, and I suspect that other people on this list would rather not be used for that purpose either. While I enjoy helping someone who truly has a difficult or unusual problem, doing other people's work for them goes beyond the call of duty. Time is, indeed, of the essence for many of us, as you say. But why would one person's time be more important than mine? I also rely on this list as a resource to help out with any big problems I might run into, so I'm glad there are some very skilled and knowledgeable people that monitor this list. I would be really disappointed to see them leave because this list degenerated into some sort of off-topic "how to program" tutorial group. This list is not moderated, so it is neither democratic (moderator chosen by vote) nor totalitarian (moderator is the list admin, Ray Ontko). Anarchy seems more accurate. As such, anyone can really post whatever they want, and we each make our own decision as to whether it is worth sticking around based on our own needs. We can all decide as a group that job posting are taboo, but we know full well that some people will still post them anyway. So all I can say is this: I would prefer that we stay generally on topic. And I would prefer that we not be deluged with trivial questions that are asked just to save someone else's time at the expense of my time. But these are my preferences based on my needs. If you or anyone else feels that it would be a good idea to encourage people to post off-topic or trivial questions, just consider what long-term utility you will be getting from this list. There's probably no point to debating this. Its not as if any decision would be binding, and this really could just be considered more "noise" on the list anyway. Each person can make up their own mind and do as they wish. Personally, I'm not going to whine about every post that goes off-topic or asks something really trivial, nor will I send nasty notes to people who post jobs here. Its not worth it and doesn't help in any case. But now and then I think its worthwhile to point out that this list is only as useful as we make it. Chris On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Ken Boettger wrote: > Chris, > > I am not certain I agree with this precept. It is a controversial one and a common one, I know. But I wonder if it is an appropriate view. I quess I am a proponent of the "there is no stupid or silly questions" and that forums are a place of learning. > > In addition, I have been in IT for 15 years and work with many languages and tools. It is very hard to keep everything straight. Many times I will go to a list to get an answer to a simple issue that I cannot recall the answer too. Yes, the answer is in the FAQ or in the manuals. And I think they should be encouraged, but not enforced. The reason being that time is of the essence for many of us. On many occassions (both in the public and private sector), I will post a question and then proceed with something else until a response comes back. From a statistical point of view, it might take me 5 or 10 minutes to find and read through a FAQ or manual before I find an anwser (if I can even remember where the manual is - or who borrowed it last). Using a forum or list, I maybe type a concise question for 30 seconds, then spend another minute reading the responses - the point here being that a five fold increase in efficiency is significant from a temporal, financial and pro! fe! > ssional point of view. > > My question is, what is the position here? I believe in democracy and will go either way. But I have on many occasions posted simple questions to this list. If such questions are not welcome, I will stop using this forum in that regard. And maybe we should consider an additional forum that subscribes to a more open view including novice type questions? There is a definitely a need for such a forum. > > -Ken > > Ken Boettger > boettgek@cwu.edu > http://www.cwu.edu/~boettgek > x2944 From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Tue Oct 1 17:53:57 2002 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:27:05 -0700 From: David Thorburn Subject: Re: Purpose of this list I agree, take a class and become qualified airhead! Otherwise you are just a leech here! Nuff Said D. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron M. Reiff" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 1:02 PM Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > Perhaps we should all move on. All points seems to have been expressed, aired and otherwise worn-out. > > Does anyone have anything productive and non-threatening to say regarding this issue before we return to the business at hand? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Discussion of SQR, Brio Software's database reporting language > [mailto:SQR-USERS@list.iex.net]On Behalf Of Allen Cunningham > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 2:37 PM > To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net > Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > > > Chris - I certainly don't appreciate being lectured and scolded by you, and > your patronizing little suggestion to take a PeopleTools class. If your > having a bad day, find a better way to deal with it than venting on this > board. This was posted late Fri afternoon, it certainly didn't generate a > lot of 'noise' that you say you are so worried about. If you don't like a > posting, ignore it. > > ac > > -----Original Message----- > From: Discussion of SQR, Brio Software's database reporting language > [mailto:SQR-USERS@list.iex.net]On Behalf Of Chris Bennett > Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 4:15 PM > To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net > Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > > > Ken, > > That's an interesting question. Just for clarification let me point out > that my primary concern was the potential trouble I foresaw Allen getting > into if he tries to accomplish his goals by getting "step by step" > instructions from this list. I thought it was a very valid and hopefully > helpful answer to suggest that a class might be in his best interest. > > However, it is true that I was also concerned about the signal/noise ratio > of this list, and I took the opportunity to also suggest that perhaps not > everyone on the list would like to read a question and answer about basic > PeopleTools (please note, however, that even after I said his post was > off-topic and that he would be better served by taking a class, that I > still answered the question). > > Anyway, to attempt to answer your question... > > According the the mailing list "hints and guidelines" > (http://www.sqrug.org/sqr-users/sqr-users-hints.html), the only sections > that directly refer to "etiquette" are the following: > > 1) "keep in mind that over 500 people will receive your message, and that > it will appear in the list archives. Try to keep your messages on-topic > and relatively short. Consider sending your message directly to particular > people if it won't interest many of the list's subscribers." > > 2) "Please do not post job announcements on the sqr-users list, but use > the sqr-jobs list instead. (See Related Mailing Lists for more information > on this list.) A large number of sqr-users subscribers do not want to > receive job announcements (for various reasons) and such posts tend to > cause a lot of disruption of the discussion on the list." > > One could also read section 4.2 "Posting a Message" as strongly implying > that messages posted here should relate specifically to SQR. > > Aside from this, I don't know what the "position" here is any more than > you do (and as I'll explain below, to some extent it really doesn't > matter), but I'll offer up my opinions. > > I'll start with two assumptions. These may be debatable, but I'll throw > them out as a starting point: > > 1) Most people on this list are (more or less) well paid professionals > > 2) If there is too much noise the "gurus" that monitor this list will lose > interest and leave. > > Given these assumptions, I have the following opinions: > > I don't want to be used as someone else's gopher for basic reference > materials, and I suspect that other people on this list would rather not > be used for that purpose either. While I enjoy helping someone who truly > has a difficult or unusual problem, doing other people's work for them > goes beyond the call of duty. Time is, indeed, of the essence for many of > us, as you say. But why would one person's time be more important than > mine? > > I also rely on this list as a resource to help out with any big problems I > might run into, so I'm glad there are some very skilled and knowledgeable > people that monitor this list. I would be really disappointed to see them > leave because this list degenerated into some sort of off-topic "how to > program" tutorial group. > > This list is not moderated, so it is neither democratic (moderator chosen > by vote) nor totalitarian (moderator is the list admin, Ray Ontko). > Anarchy seems more accurate. As such, anyone can really post whatever > they want, and we each make our own decision as to whether it is worth > sticking around based on our own needs. We can all decide as a group that > job posting are taboo, but we know full well that some people will still > post them anyway. > > So all I can say is this: I would prefer that we stay generally on topic. > And I would prefer that we not be deluged with trivial questions that are > asked just to save someone else's time at the expense of my time. But > these are my preferences based on my needs. If you or anyone else feels > that it would be a good idea to encourage people to post off-topic or > trivial questions, just consider what long-term utility you will be > getting from this list. > > There's probably no point to debating this. Its not as if any decision > would be binding, and this really could just be considered more "noise" > on the list anyway. Each person can make up their own mind and do as they > wish. Personally, I'm not going to whine about every post that goes > off-topic or asks something really trivial, nor will I send nasty notes to > people who post jobs here. Its not worth it and doesn't help in any case. > But now and then I think its worthwhile to point out that this list is > only as useful as we make it. > > Chris > > On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Ken Boettger wrote: > > > Chris, > > > > I am not certain I agree with this precept. It is a controversial one and > a common one, I know. But I wonder if it is an appropriate view. I quess I > am a proponent of the "there is no stupid or silly questions" and that > forums are a place of learning. > > > > In addition, I have been in IT for 15 years and work with many languages > and tools. It is very hard to keep everything straight. Many times I will > go to a list to get an answer to a simple issue that I cannot recall the > answer too. Yes, the answer is in the FAQ or in the manuals. And I think > they should be encouraged, but not enforced. The reason being that time is > of the essence for many of us. On many occassions (both in the public and > private sector), I will post a question and then proceed with something else > until a response comes back. From a statistical point of view, it might > take me 5 or 10 minutes to find and read through a FAQ or manual before I > find an anwser (if I can even remember where the manual is - or who borrowed > it last). Using a forum or list, I maybe type a concise question for 30 > seconds, then spend another minute reading the responses - the point here > being that a five fold increase in efficiency is significant from a > temporal, financial and pro! > fe! > > ssional point of view. > > > > My question is, what is the position here? I believe in democracy and > will go either way. But I have on many occasions posted simple questions to > this list. If such questions are not welcome, I will stop using this forum > in that regard. And maybe we should consider an additional forum that > subscribes to a more open view including novice type questions? There is a > definitely a need for such a forum. > > > > -Ken > > > > Ken Boettger > > boettgek@cwu.edu > > http://www.cwu.edu/~boettgek > > x2944 > From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Tue Oct 1 15:56:00 2002 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:22:28 -0400 From: "Christenson, Amy" Subject: Re: Purpose of this list I do; If you need help with PeopleSoft specific questions in the future, please join us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/peoplesoft-fans . I belong to both groups but move back and forth depending on my question. That way you can avoid at least a portion of this in the future. Amy -----Original Message----- From: Aaron M. Reiff [mailto:aaron.reiff@MAIL.RGSTR.WISC.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 4:03 PM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Purpose of this list Perhaps we should all move on. All points seems to have been expressed, aired and otherwise worn-out. Does anyone have anything productive and non-threatening to say regarding this issue before we return to the business at hand? -----Original Message----- From: Discussion of SQR, Brio Software's database reporting language [mailto:SQR-USERS@list.iex.net]On Behalf Of Allen Cunningham Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 2:37 PM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Purpose of this list Chris - I certainly don't appreciate being lectured and scolded by you, and your patronizing little suggestion to take a PeopleTools class. If your having a bad day, find a better way to deal with it than venting on this board. This was posted late Fri afternoon, it certainly didn't generate a lot of 'noise' that you say you are so worried about. If you don't like a posting, ignore it. ac -----Original Message----- From: Discussion of SQR, Brio Software's database reporting language [mailto:SQR-USERS@list.iex.net]On Behalf Of Chris Bennett Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 4:15 PM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Purpose of this list Ken, That's an interesting question. Just for clarification let me point out that my primary concern was the potential trouble I foresaw Allen getting into if he tries to accomplish his goals by getting "step by step" instructions from this list. I thought it was a very valid and hopefully helpful answer to suggest that a class might be in his best interest. However, it is true that I was also concerned about the signal/noise ratio of this list, and I took the opportunity to also suggest that perhaps not everyone on the list would like to read a question and answer about basic PeopleTools (please note, however, that even after I said his post was off-topic and that he would be better served by taking a class, that I still answered the question). Anyway, to attempt to answer your question... According the the mailing list "hints and guidelines" (http://www.sqrug.org/sqr-users/sqr-users-hints.html), the only sections that directly refer to "etiquette" are the following: 1) "keep in mind that over 500 people will receive your message, and that it will appear in the list archives. Try to keep your messages on-topic and relatively short. Consider sending your message directly to particular people if it won't interest many of the list's subscribers." 2) "Please do not post job announcements on the sqr-users list, but use the sqr-jobs list instead. (See Related Mailing Lists for more information on this list.) A large number of sqr-users subscribers do not want to receive job announcements (for various reasons) and such posts tend to cause a lot of disruption of the discussion on the list." One could also read section 4.2 "Posting a Message" as strongly implying that messages posted here should relate specifically to SQR. Aside from this, I don't know what the "position" here is any more than you do (and as I'll explain below, to some extent it really doesn't matter), but I'll offer up my opinions. I'll start with two assumptions. These may be debatable, but I'll throw them out as a starting point: 1) Most people on this list are (more or less) well paid professionals 2) If there is too much noise the "gurus" that monitor this list will lose interest and leave. Given these assumptions, I have the following opinions: I don't want to be used as someone else's gopher for basic reference materials, and I suspect that other people on this list would rather not be used for that purpose either. While I enjoy helping someone who truly has a difficult or unusual problem, doing other people's work for them goes beyond the call of duty. Time is, indeed, of the essence for many of us, as you say. But why would one person's time be more important than mine? I also rely on this list as a resource to help out with any big problems I might run into, so I'm glad there are some very skilled and knowledgeable people that monitor this list. I would be really disappointed to see them leave because this list degenerated into some sort of off-topic "how to program" tutorial group. This list is not moderated, so it is neither democratic (moderator chosen by vote) nor totalitarian (moderator is the list admin, Ray Ontko). Anarchy seems more accurate. As such, anyone can really post whatever they want, and we each make our own decision as to whether it is worth sticking around based on our own needs. We can all decide as a group that job posting are taboo, but we know full well that some people will still post them anyway. So all I can say is this: I would prefer that we stay generally on topic. And I would prefer that we not be deluged with trivial questions that are asked just to save someone else's time at the expense of my time. But these are my preferences based on my needs. If you or anyone else feels that it would be a good idea to encourage people to post off-topic or trivial questions, just consider what long-term utility you will be getting from this list. There's probably no point to debating this. Its not as if any decision would be binding, and this really could just be considered more "noise" on the list anyway. Each person can make up their own mind and do as they wish. Personally, I'm not going to whine about every post that goes off-topic or asks something really trivial, nor will I send nasty notes to people who post jobs here. Its not worth it and doesn't help in any case. But now and then I think its worthwhile to point out that this list is only as useful as we make it. Chris On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Ken Boettger wrote: > Chris, > > I am not certain I agree with this precept. It is a controversial one and a common one, I know. But I wonder if it is an appropriate view. I quess I am a proponent of the "there is no stupid or silly questions" and that forums are a place of learning. > > In addition, I have been in IT for 15 years and work with many languages and tools. It is very hard to keep everything straight. Many times I will go to a list to get an answer to a simple issue that I cannot recall the answer too. Yes, the answer is in the FAQ or in the manuals. And I think they should be encouraged, but not enforced. The reason being that time is of the essence for many of us. On many occassions (both in the public and private sector), I will post a question and then proceed with something else until a response comes back. From a statistical point of view, it might take me 5 or 10 minutes to find and read through a FAQ or manual before I find an anwser (if I can even remember where the manual is - or who borrowed it last). Using a forum or list, I maybe type a concise question for 30 seconds, then spend another minute reading the responses - the point here being that a five fold increase in efficiency is significant from a temporal, financial and pro! fe! > ssional point of view. > > My question is, what is the position here? I believe in democracy and will go either way. But I have on many occasions posted simple questions to this list. If such questions are not welcome, I will stop using this forum in that regard. And maybe we should consider an additional forum that subscribes to a more open view including novice type questions? There is a definitely a need for such a forum. > > -Ken > > Ken Boettger > boettgek@cwu.edu > http://www.cwu.edu/~boettgek > x2944 From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Tue Oct 1 17:54:53 2002 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:25:25 -0700 From: David Thorburn Subject: Re: Purpose of this list perfect example of an unfocused liberal PC wishy washy response to a very serious situation. Why don't you run for President? D. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christenson, Amy" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 1:22 PM Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > I do; If you need help with PeopleSoft specific questions in the future, > please join us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/peoplesoft-fans . I belong > to both groups but move back and forth depending on my question. That way > you can avoid at least a portion of this in the future. > > Amy > > -----Original Message----- > From: Aaron M. Reiff [mailto:aaron.reiff@MAIL.RGSTR.WISC.EDU] > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 4:03 PM > To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net > Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > > > Perhaps we should all move on. All points seems to have been expressed, > aired and otherwise worn-out. > > Does anyone have anything productive and non-threatening to say regarding > this issue before we return to the business at hand? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Discussion of SQR, Brio Software's database reporting language > [mailto:SQR-USERS@list.iex.net]On Behalf Of Allen Cunningham > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 2:37 PM > To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net > Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > > > Chris - I certainly don't appreciate being lectured and scolded by you, and > your patronizing little suggestion to take a PeopleTools class. If your > having a bad day, find a better way to deal with it than venting on this > board. This was posted late Fri afternoon, it certainly didn't generate a > lot of 'noise' that you say you are so worried about. If you don't like a > posting, ignore it. > > ac > > -----Original Message----- > From: Discussion of SQR, Brio Software's database reporting language > [mailto:SQR-USERS@list.iex.net]On Behalf Of Chris Bennett > Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 4:15 PM > To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net > Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > > > Ken, > > That's an interesting question. Just for clarification let me point out > that my primary concern was the potential trouble I foresaw Allen getting > into if he tries to accomplish his goals by getting "step by step" > instructions from this list. I thought it was a very valid and hopefully > helpful answer to suggest that a class might be in his best interest. > > However, it is true that I was also concerned about the signal/noise ratio > of this list, and I took the opportunity to also suggest that perhaps not > everyone on the list would like to read a question and answer about basic > PeopleTools (please note, however, that even after I said his post was > off-topic and that he would be better served by taking a class, that I > still answered the question). > > Anyway, to attempt to answer your question... > > According the the mailing list "hints and guidelines" > (http://www.sqrug.org/sqr-users/sqr-users-hints.html), the only sections > that directly refer to "etiquette" are the following: > > 1) "keep in mind that over 500 people will receive your message, and that > it will appear in the list archives. Try to keep your messages on-topic > and relatively short. Consider sending your message directly to particular > people if it won't interest many of the list's subscribers." > > 2) "Please do not post job announcements on the sqr-users list, but use > the sqr-jobs list instead. (See Related Mailing Lists for more information > on this list.) A large number of sqr-users subscribers do not want to > receive job announcements (for various reasons) and such posts tend to > cause a lot of disruption of the discussion on the list." > > One could also read section 4.2 "Posting a Message" as strongly implying > that messages posted here should relate specifically to SQR. > > Aside from this, I don't know what the "position" here is any more than > you do (and as I'll explain below, to some extent it really doesn't > matter), but I'll offer up my opinions. > > I'll start with two assumptions. These may be debatable, but I'll throw > them out as a starting point: > > 1) Most people on this list are (more or less) well paid professionals > > 2) If there is too much noise the "gurus" that monitor this list will lose > interest and leave. > > Given these assumptions, I have the following opinions: > > I don't want to be used as someone else's gopher for basic reference > materials, and I suspect that other people on this list would rather not > be used for that purpose either. While I enjoy helping someone who truly > has a difficult or unusual problem, doing other people's work for them > goes beyond the call of duty. Time is, indeed, of the essence for many of > us, as you say. But why would one person's time be more important than > mine? > > I also rely on this list as a resource to help out with any big problems I > might run into, so I'm glad there are some very skilled and knowledgeable > people that monitor this list. I would be really disappointed to see them > leave because this list degenerated into some sort of off-topic "how to > program" tutorial group. > > This list is not moderated, so it is neither democratic (moderator chosen > by vote) nor totalitarian (moderator is the list admin, Ray Ontko). > Anarchy seems more accurate. As such, anyone can really post whatever > they want, and we each make our own decision as to whether it is worth > sticking around based on our own needs. We can all decide as a group that > job posting are taboo, but we know full well that some people will still > post them anyway. > > So all I can say is this: I would prefer that we stay generally on topic. > And I would prefer that we not be deluged with trivial questions that are > asked just to save someone else's time at the expense of my time. But > these are my preferences based on my needs. If you or anyone else feels > that it would be a good idea to encourage people to post off-topic or > trivial questions, just consider what long-term utility you will be > getting from this list. > > There's probably no point to debating this. Its not as if any decision > would be binding, and this really could just be considered more "noise" > on the list anyway. Each person can make up their own mind and do as they > wish. Personally, I'm not going to whine about every post that goes > off-topic or asks something really trivial, nor will I send nasty notes to > people who post jobs here. Its not worth it and doesn't help in any case. > But now and then I think its worthwhile to point out that this list is > only as useful as we make it. > > Chris > > On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Ken Boettger wrote: > > > Chris, > > > > I am not certain I agree with this precept. It is a controversial one and > a common one, I know. But I wonder if it is an appropriate view. I quess I > am a proponent of the "there is no stupid or silly questions" and that > forums are a place of learning. > > > > In addition, I have been in IT for 15 years and work with many languages > and tools. It is very hard to keep everything straight. Many times I will > go to a list to get an answer to a simple issue that I cannot recall the > answer too. Yes, the answer is in the FAQ or in the manuals. And I think > they should be encouraged, but not enforced. The reason being that time is > of the essence for many of us. On many occassions (both in the public and > private sector), I will post a question and then proceed with something else > until a response comes back. From a statistical point of view, it might > take me 5 or 10 minutes to find and read through a FAQ or manual before I > find an anwser (if I can even remember where the manual is - or who borrowed > it last). Using a forum or list, I maybe type a concise question for 30 > seconds, then spend another minute reading the responses - the point here > being that a five fold increase in efficiency is significant from a > temporal, financial and pro! > fe! > > ssional point of view. > > > > My question is, what is the position here? I believe in democracy and > will go either way. But I have on many occasions posted simple questions to > this list. If such questions are not welcome, I will stop using this forum > in that regard. And maybe we should consider an additional forum that > subscribes to a more open view including novice type questions? There is a > definitely a need for such a forum. > > > > -Ken > > > > Ken Boettger > > boettgek@cwu.edu > > http://www.cwu.edu/~boettgek > > x2944 > From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Tue Oct 1 17:54:18 2002 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:28:47 -0700 From: David Thorburn Subject: Re: Purpose of this list Wah! Allen, You big baby! Someone called you on being a leech! Grow Up and get qualified! D. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allen Cunningham" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 12:37 PM Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > Chris - I certainly don't appreciate being lectured and scolded by you, and > your patronizing little suggestion to take a PeopleTools class. If your > having a bad day, find a better way to deal with it than venting on this > board. This was posted late Fri afternoon, it certainly didn't generate a > lot of 'noise' that you say you are so worried about. If you don't like a > posting, ignore it. > > ac > > -----Original Message----- > From: Discussion of SQR, Brio Software's database reporting language > [mailto:SQR-USERS@list.iex.net]On Behalf Of Chris Bennett > Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 4:15 PM > To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net > Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > > > Ken, > > That's an interesting question. Just for clarification let me point out > that my primary concern was the potential trouble I foresaw Allen getting > into if he tries to accomplish his goals by getting "step by step" > instructions from this list. I thought it was a very valid and hopefully > helpful answer to suggest that a class might be in his best interest. > > However, it is true that I was also concerned about the signal/noise ratio > of this list, and I took the opportunity to also suggest that perhaps not > everyone on the list would like to read a question and answer about basic > PeopleTools (please note, however, that even after I said his post was > off-topic and that he would be better served by taking a class, that I > still answered the question). > > Anyway, to attempt to answer your question... > > According the the mailing list "hints and guidelines" > (http://www.sqrug.org/sqr-users/sqr-users-hints.html), the only sections > that directly refer to "etiquette" are the following: > > 1) "keep in mind that over 500 people will receive your message, and that > it will appear in the list archives. Try to keep your messages on-topic > and relatively short. Consider sending your message directly to particular > people if it won't interest many of the list's subscribers." > > 2) "Please do not post job announcements on the sqr-users list, but use > the sqr-jobs list instead. (See Related Mailing Lists for more information > on this list.) A large number of sqr-users subscribers do not want to > receive job announcements (for various reasons) and such posts tend to > cause a lot of disruption of the discussion on the list." > > One could also read section 4.2 "Posting a Message" as strongly implying > that messages posted here should relate specifically to SQR. > > Aside from this, I don't know what the "position" here is any more than > you do (and as I'll explain below, to some extent it really doesn't > matter), but I'll offer up my opinions. > > I'll start with two assumptions. These may be debatable, but I'll throw > them out as a starting point: > > 1) Most people on this list are (more or less) well paid professionals > > 2) If there is too much noise the "gurus" that monitor this list will lose > interest and leave. > > Given these assumptions, I have the following opinions: > > I don't want to be used as someone else's gopher for basic reference > materials, and I suspect that other people on this list would rather not > be used for that purpose either. While I enjoy helping someone who truly > has a difficult or unusual problem, doing other people's work for them > goes beyond the call of duty. Time is, indeed, of the essence for many of > us, as you say. But why would one person's time be more important than > mine? > > I also rely on this list as a resource to help out with any big problems I > might run into, so I'm glad there are some very skilled and knowledgeable > people that monitor this list. I would be really disappointed to see them > leave because this list degenerated into some sort of off-topic "how to > program" tutorial group. > > This list is not moderated, so it is neither democratic (moderator chosen > by vote) nor totalitarian (moderator is the list admin, Ray Ontko). > Anarchy seems more accurate. As such, anyone can really post whatever > they want, and we each make our own decision as to whether it is worth > sticking around based on our own needs. We can all decide as a group that > job posting are taboo, but we know full well that some people will still > post them anyway. > > So all I can say is this: I would prefer that we stay generally on topic. > And I would prefer that we not be deluged with trivial questions that are > asked just to save someone else's time at the expense of my time. But > these are my preferences based on my needs. If you or anyone else feels > that it would be a good idea to encourage people to post off-topic or > trivial questions, just consider what long-term utility you will be > getting from this list. > > There's probably no point to debating this. Its not as if any decision > would be binding, and this really could just be considered more "noise" > on the list anyway. Each person can make up their own mind and do as they > wish. Personally, I'm not going to whine about every post that goes > off-topic or asks something really trivial, nor will I send nasty notes to > people who post jobs here. Its not worth it and doesn't help in any case. > But now and then I think its worthwhile to point out that this list is > only as useful as we make it. > > Chris > > On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Ken Boettger wrote: > > > Chris, > > > > I am not certain I agree with this precept. It is a controversial one and > a common one, I know. But I wonder if it is an appropriate view. I quess I > am a proponent of the "there is no stupid or silly questions" and that > forums are a place of learning. > > > > In addition, I have been in IT for 15 years and work with many languages > and tools. It is very hard to keep everything straight. Many times I will > go to a list to get an answer to a simple issue that I cannot recall the > answer too. Yes, the answer is in the FAQ or in the manuals. And I think > they should be encouraged, but not enforced. The reason being that time is > of the essence for many of us. On many occassions (both in the public and > private sector), I will post a question and then proceed with something else > until a response comes back. From a statistical point of view, it might > take me 5 or 10 minutes to find and read through a FAQ or manual before I > find an anwser (if I can even remember where the manual is - or who borrowed > it last). Using a forum or list, I maybe type a concise question for 30 > seconds, then spend another minute reading the responses - the point here > being that a five fold increase in efficiency is significant from a > temporal, financial and pro! > fe! > > ssional point of view. > > > > My question is, what is the position here? I believe in democracy and > will go either way. But I have on many occasions posted simple questions to > this list. If such questions are not welcome, I will stop using this forum > in that regard. And maybe we should consider an additional forum that > subscribes to a more open view including novice type questions? There is a > definitely a need for such a forum. > > > > -Ken > > > > Ken Boettger > > boettgek@cwu.edu > > http://www.cwu.edu/~boettgek > > x2944 > From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Wed Oct 2 08:56:08 2002 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:25:55 -0400 From: "Christenson, Amy" Subject: Re: Purpose of this list Why don't you run for professional help and in the meantime stop abusing this forum. -----Original Message----- From: David Thorburn [mailto:thorburn@CONL.NET] Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 6:25 PM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Purpose of this list perfect example of an unfocused liberal PC wishy washy response to a very serious situation. Why don't you run for President? D. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christenson, Amy" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 1:22 PM Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > I do; If you need help with PeopleSoft specific questions in the future, > please join us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/peoplesoft-fans . I belong > to both groups but move back and forth depending on my question. That way > you can avoid at least a portion of this in the future. > > Amy > > -----Original Message----- > From: Aaron M. Reiff [mailto:aaron.reiff@MAIL.RGSTR.WISC.EDU] > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 4:03 PM > To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net > Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > > > Perhaps we should all move on. All points seems to have been expressed, > aired and otherwise worn-out. > > Does anyone have anything productive and non-threatening to say regarding > this issue before we return to the business at hand? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Discussion of SQR, Brio Software's database reporting language > [mailto:SQR-USERS@list.iex.net]On Behalf Of Allen Cunningham > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 2:37 PM > To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net > Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > > > Chris - I certainly don't appreciate being lectured and scolded by you, and > your patronizing little suggestion to take a PeopleTools class. If your > having a bad day, find a better way to deal with it than venting on this > board. This was posted late Fri afternoon, it certainly didn't generate a > lot of 'noise' that you say you are so worried about. If you don't like a > posting, ignore it. > > ac > > -----Original Message----- > From: Discussion of SQR, Brio Software's database reporting language > [mailto:SQR-USERS@list.iex.net]On Behalf Of Chris Bennett > Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 4:15 PM > To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net > Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > > > Ken, > > That's an interesting question. Just for clarification let me point out > that my primary concern was the potential trouble I foresaw Allen getting > into if he tries to accomplish his goals by getting "step by step" > instructions from this list. I thought it was a very valid and hopefully > helpful answer to suggest that a class might be in his best interest. > > However, it is true that I was also concerned about the signal/noise ratio > of this list, and I took the opportunity to also suggest that perhaps not > everyone on the list would like to read a question and answer about basic > PeopleTools (please note, however, that even after I said his post was > off-topic and that he would be better served by taking a class, that I > still answered the question). > > Anyway, to attempt to answer your question... > > According the the mailing list "hints and guidelines" > (http://www.sqrug.org/sqr-users/sqr-users-hints.html), the only sections > that directly refer to "etiquette" are the following: > > 1) "keep in mind that over 500 people will receive your message, and that > it will appear in the list archives. Try to keep your messages on-topic > and relatively short. Consider sending your message directly to particular > people if it won't interest many of the list's subscribers." > > 2) "Please do not post job announcements on the sqr-users list, but use > the sqr-jobs list instead. (See Related Mailing Lists for more information > on this list.) A large number of sqr-users subscribers do not want to > receive job announcements (for various reasons) and such posts tend to > cause a lot of disruption of the discussion on the list." > > One could also read section 4.2 "Posting a Message" as strongly implying > that messages posted here should relate specifically to SQR. > > Aside from this, I don't know what the "position" here is any more than > you do (and as I'll explain below, to some extent it really doesn't > matter), but I'll offer up my opinions. > > I'll start with two assumptions. These may be debatable, but I'll throw > them out as a starting point: > > 1) Most people on this list are (more or less) well paid professionals > > 2) If there is too much noise the "gurus" that monitor this list will lose > interest and leave. > > Given these assumptions, I have the following opinions: > > I don't want to be used as someone else's gopher for basic reference > materials, and I suspect that other people on this list would rather not > be used for that purpose either. While I enjoy helping someone who truly > has a difficult or unusual problem, doing other people's work for them > goes beyond the call of duty. Time is, indeed, of the essence for many of > us, as you say. But why would one person's time be more important than > mine? > > I also rely on this list as a resource to help out with any big problems I > might run into, so I'm glad there are some very skilled and knowledgeable > people that monitor this list. I would be really disappointed to see them > leave because this list degenerated into some sort of off-topic "how to > program" tutorial group. > > This list is not moderated, so it is neither democratic (moderator chosen > by vote) nor totalitarian (moderator is the list admin, Ray Ontko). > Anarchy seems more accurate. As such, anyone can really post whatever > they want, and we each make our own decision as to whether it is worth > sticking around based on our own needs. We can all decide as a group that > job posting are taboo, but we know full well that some people will still > post them anyway. > > So all I can say is this: I would prefer that we stay generally on topic. > And I would prefer that we not be deluged with trivial questions that are > asked just to save someone else's time at the expense of my time. But > these are my preferences based on my needs. If you or anyone else feels > that it would be a good idea to encourage people to post off-topic or > trivial questions, just consider what long-term utility you will be > getting from this list. > > There's probably no point to debating this. Its not as if any decision > would be binding, and this really could just be considered more "noise" > on the list anyway. Each person can make up their own mind and do as they > wish. Personally, I'm not going to whine about every post that goes > off-topic or asks something really trivial, nor will I send nasty notes to > people who post jobs here. Its not worth it and doesn't help in any case. > But now and then I think its worthwhile to point out that this list is > only as useful as we make it. > > Chris > > On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Ken Boettger wrote: > > > Chris, > > > > I am not certain I agree with this precept. It is a controversial one and > a common one, I know. But I wonder if it is an appropriate view. I quess I > am a proponent of the "there is no stupid or silly questions" and that > forums are a place of learning. > > > > In addition, I have been in IT for 15 years and work with many languages > and tools. It is very hard to keep everything straight. Many times I will > go to a list to get an answer to a simple issue that I cannot recall the > answer too. Yes, the answer is in the FAQ or in the manuals. And I think > they should be encouraged, but not enforced. The reason being that time is > of the essence for many of us. On many occassions (both in the public and > private sector), I will post a question and then proceed with something else > until a response comes back. From a statistical point of view, it might > take me 5 or 10 minutes to find and read through a FAQ or manual before I > find an anwser (if I can even remember where the manual is - or who borrowed > it last). Using a forum or list, I maybe type a concise question for 30 > seconds, then spend another minute reading the responses - the point here > being that a five fold increase in efficiency is significant from a > temporal, financial and pro! > fe! > > ssional point of view. > > > > My question is, what is the position here? I believe in democracy and > will go either way. But I have on many occasions posted simple questions to > this list. If such questions are not welcome, I will stop using this forum > in that regard. And maybe we should consider an additional forum that > subscribes to a more open view including novice type questions? There is a > definitely a need for such a forum. > > > > -Ken > > > > Ken Boettger > > boettgek@cwu.edu > > http://www.cwu.edu/~boettgek > > x2944 > From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Wed Oct 2 10:29:45 2002 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:04:57 -0700 From: Allen Cunningham Subject: Re: Purpose of this list I agree Amy, there's just a handful of these idiots like him who have destroyed this list. ac -----Original Message----- From: Discussion of SQR, Brio Software's database reporting language [mailto:SQR-USERS@list.iex.net]On Behalf Of Christenson, Amy Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 6:26 AM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Purpose of this list Why don't you run for professional help and in the meantime stop abusing this forum. -----Original Message----- From: David Thorburn [mailto:thorburn@CONL.NET] Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 6:25 PM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Purpose of this list perfect example of an unfocused liberal PC wishy washy response to a very serious situation. Why don't you run for President? D. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christenson, Amy" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 1:22 PM Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > I do; If you need help with PeopleSoft specific questions in the future, > please join us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/peoplesoft-fans . I belong > to both groups but move back and forth depending on my question. That way > you can avoid at least a portion of this in the future. > > Amy > > -----Original Message----- > From: Aaron M. Reiff [mailto:aaron.reiff@MAIL.RGSTR.WISC.EDU] > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 4:03 PM > To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net > Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > > > Perhaps we should all move on. All points seems to have been expressed, > aired and otherwise worn-out. > > Does anyone have anything productive and non-threatening to say regarding > this issue before we return to the business at hand? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Discussion of SQR, Brio Software's database reporting language > [mailto:SQR-USERS@list.iex.net]On Behalf Of Allen Cunningham > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 2:37 PM > To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net > Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > > > Chris - I certainly don't appreciate being lectured and scolded by you, and > your patronizing little suggestion to take a PeopleTools class. If your > having a bad day, find a better way to deal with it than venting on this > board. This was posted late Fri afternoon, it certainly didn't generate a > lot of 'noise' that you say you are so worried about. If you don't like a > posting, ignore it. > > ac > > -----Original Message----- > From: Discussion of SQR, Brio Software's database reporting language > [mailto:SQR-USERS@list.iex.net]On Behalf Of Chris Bennett > Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 4:15 PM > To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net > Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > > > Ken, > > That's an interesting question. Just for clarification let me point out > that my primary concern was the potential trouble I foresaw Allen getting > into if he tries to accomplish his goals by getting "step by step" > instructions from this list. I thought it was a very valid and hopefully > helpful answer to suggest that a class might be in his best interest. > > However, it is true that I was also concerned about the signal/noise ratio > of this list, and I took the opportunity to also suggest that perhaps not > everyone on the list would like to read a question and answer about basic > PeopleTools (please note, however, that even after I said his post was > off-topic and that he would be better served by taking a class, that I > still answered the question). > > Anyway, to attempt to answer your question... > > According the the mailing list "hints and guidelines" > (http://www.sqrug.org/sqr-users/sqr-users-hints.html), the only sections > that directly refer to "etiquette" are the following: > > 1) "keep in mind that over 500 people will receive your message, and that > it will appear in the list archives. Try to keep your messages on-topic > and relatively short. Consider sending your message directly to particular > people if it won't interest many of the list's subscribers." > > 2) "Please do not post job announcements on the sqr-users list, but use > the sqr-jobs list instead. (See Related Mailing Lists for more information > on this list.) A large number of sqr-users subscribers do not want to > receive job announcements (for various reasons) and such posts tend to > cause a lot of disruption of the discussion on the list." > > One could also read section 4.2 "Posting a Message" as strongly implying > that messages posted here should relate specifically to SQR. > > Aside from this, I don't know what the "position" here is any more than > you do (and as I'll explain below, to some extent it really doesn't > matter), but I'll offer up my opinions. > > I'll start with two assumptions. These may be debatable, but I'll throw > them out as a starting point: > > 1) Most people on this list are (more or less) well paid professionals > > 2) If there is too much noise the "gurus" that monitor this list will lose > interest and leave. > > Given these assumptions, I have the following opinions: > > I don't want to be used as someone else's gopher for basic reference > materials, and I suspect that other people on this list would rather not > be used for that purpose either. While I enjoy helping someone who truly > has a difficult or unusual problem, doing other people's work for them > goes beyond the call of duty. Time is, indeed, of the essence for many of > us, as you say. But why would one person's time be more important than > mine? > > I also rely on this list as a resource to help out with any big problems I > might run into, so I'm glad there are some very skilled and knowledgeable > people that monitor this list. I would be really disappointed to see them > leave because this list degenerated into some sort of off-topic "how to > program" tutorial group. > > This list is not moderated, so it is neither democratic (moderator chosen > by vote) nor totalitarian (moderator is the list admin, Ray Ontko). > Anarchy seems more accurate. As such, anyone can really post whatever > they want, and we each make our own decision as to whether it is worth > sticking around based on our own needs. We can all decide as a group that > job posting are taboo, but we know full well that some people will still > post them anyway. > > So all I can say is this: I would prefer that we stay generally on topic. > And I would prefer that we not be deluged with trivial questions that are > asked just to save someone else's time at the expense of my time. But > these are my preferences based on my needs. If you or anyone else feels > that it would be a good idea to encourage people to post off-topic or > trivial questions, just consider what long-term utility you will be > getting from this list. > > There's probably no point to debating this. Its not as if any decision > would be binding, and this really could just be considered more "noise" > on the list anyway. Each person can make up their own mind and do as they > wish. Personally, I'm not going to whine about every post that goes > off-topic or asks something really trivial, nor will I send nasty notes to > people who post jobs here. Its not worth it and doesn't help in any case. > But now and then I think its worthwhile to point out that this list is > only as useful as we make it. > > Chris > > On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Ken Boettger wrote: > > > Chris, > > > > I am not certain I agree with this precept. It is a controversial one and > a common one, I know. But I wonder if it is an appropriate view. I quess I > am a proponent of the "there is no stupid or silly questions" and that > forums are a place of learning. > > > > In addition, I have been in IT for 15 years and work with many languages > and tools. It is very hard to keep everything straight. Many times I will > go to a list to get an answer to a simple issue that I cannot recall the > answer too. Yes, the answer is in the FAQ or in the manuals. And I think > they should be encouraged, but not enforced. The reason being that time is > of the essence for many of us. On many occassions (both in the public and > private sector), I will post a question and then proceed with something else > until a response comes back. From a statistical point of view, it might > take me 5 or 10 minutes to find and read through a FAQ or manual before I > find an anwser (if I can even remember where the manual is - or who borrowed > it last). Using a forum or list, I maybe type a concise question for 30 > seconds, then spend another minute reading the responses - the point here > being that a five fold increase in efficiency is significant from a > temporal, financial and pro! > fe! > > ssional point of view. > > > > My question is, what is the position here? I believe in democracy and > will go either way. But I have on many occasions posted simple questions to > this list. If such questions are not welcome, I will stop using this forum > in that regard. And maybe we should consider an additional forum that > subscribes to a more open view including novice type questions? There is a > definitely a need for such a forum. > > > > -Ken > > > > Ken Boettger > > boettgek@cwu.edu > > http://www.cwu.edu/~boettgek > > x2944 > From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Wed Oct 2 18:48:25 2002 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 16:02:12 -0700 From: David Thorburn Subject: Re: Purpose of this list To Allen the can't-program, whiney, wimp, name caller... Why don't you shut the $%^## up or say that to my face you whiney liberal yap! I have every right to express my opinion. SQR is a programming language and this forum is for programmers, not touchy feely mealy-mouthed liberals like you. I make my living programming as do others out here who are concerned about the the effect of offshore piracy on our careers. What's the matter, am I getting in the way of your effort to get others to do your work for you! D. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allen Cunningham" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 8:04 AM Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > I agree Amy, there's just a handful of these idiots like him who have > destroyed this list. > > ac > > -----Original Message----- > From: Discussion of SQR, Brio Software's database reporting language > [mailto:SQR-USERS@list.iex.net]On Behalf Of Christenson, Amy > Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 6:26 AM > To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net > Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > > > Why don't you run for professional help and in the meantime stop abusing > this forum. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Thorburn [mailto:thorburn@CONL.NET] > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 6:25 PM > To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net > Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > > > perfect example of an unfocused liberal PC wishy washy response to a very > serious > situation. > > Why don't you run for President? > > > > D. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christenson, Amy" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 1:22 PM > Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > > > > I do; If you need help with PeopleSoft specific questions in the future, > > please join us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/peoplesoft-fans . I belong > > to both groups but move back and forth depending on my question. That way > > you can avoid at least a portion of this in the future. > > > > Amy > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Aaron M. Reiff [mailto:aaron.reiff@MAIL.RGSTR.WISC.EDU] > > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 4:03 PM > > To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net > > Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > > > > > > Perhaps we should all move on. All points seems to have been expressed, > > aired and otherwise worn-out. > > > > Does anyone have anything productive and non-threatening to say regarding > > this issue before we return to the business at hand? > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Discussion of SQR, Brio Software's database reporting language > > [mailto:SQR-USERS@list.iex.net]On Behalf Of Allen Cunningham > > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 2:37 PM > > To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net > > Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > > > > > > Chris - I certainly don't appreciate being lectured and scolded by you, > and > > your patronizing little suggestion to take a PeopleTools class. If your > > having a bad day, find a better way to deal with it than venting on this > > board. This was posted late Fri afternoon, it certainly didn't generate a > > lot of 'noise' that you say you are so worried about. If you don't like a > > posting, ignore it. > > > > ac > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Discussion of SQR, Brio Software's database reporting language > > [mailto:SQR-USERS@list.iex.net]On Behalf Of Chris Bennett > > Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 4:15 PM > > To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net > > Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > > > > > > Ken, > > > > That's an interesting question. Just for clarification let me point out > > that my primary concern was the potential trouble I foresaw Allen getting > > into if he tries to accomplish his goals by getting "step by step" > > instructions from this list. I thought it was a very valid and hopefully > > helpful answer to suggest that a class might be in his best interest. > > > > However, it is true that I was also concerned about the signal/noise ratio > > of this list, and I took the opportunity to also suggest that perhaps not > > everyone on the list would like to read a question and answer about basic > > PeopleTools (please note, however, that even after I said his post was > > off-topic and that he would be better served by taking a class, that I > > still answered the question). > > > > Anyway, to attempt to answer your question... > > > > According the the mailing list "hints and guidelines" > > (http://www.sqrug.org/sqr-users/sqr-users-hints.html), the only sections > > that directly refer to "etiquette" are the following: > > > > 1) "keep in mind that over 500 people will receive your message, and that > > it will appear in the list archives. Try to keep your messages on-topic > > and relatively short. Consider sending your message directly to particular > > people if it won't interest many of the list's subscribers." > > > > 2) "Please do not post job announcements on the sqr-users list, but use > > the sqr-jobs list instead. (See Related Mailing Lists for more information > > on this list.) A large number of sqr-users subscribers do not want to > > receive job announcements (for various reasons) and such posts tend to > > cause a lot of disruption of the discussion on the list." > > > > One could also read section 4.2 "Posting a Message" as strongly implying > > that messages posted here should relate specifically to SQR. > > > > Aside from this, I don't know what the "position" here is any more than > > you do (and as I'll explain below, to some extent it really doesn't > > matter), but I'll offer up my opinions. > > > > I'll start with two assumptions. These may be debatable, but I'll throw > > them out as a starting point: > > > > 1) Most people on this list are (more or less) well paid professionals > > > > 2) If there is too much noise the "gurus" that monitor this list will lose > > interest and leave. > > > > Given these assumptions, I have the following opinions: > > > > I don't want to be used as someone else's gopher for basic reference > > materials, and I suspect that other people on this list would rather not > > be used for that purpose either. While I enjoy helping someone who truly > > has a difficult or unusual problem, doing other people's work for them > > goes beyond the call of duty. Time is, indeed, of the essence for many of > > us, as you say. But why would one person's time be more important than > > mine? > > > > I also rely on this list as a resource to help out with any big problems I > > might run into, so I'm glad there are some very skilled and knowledgeable > > people that monitor this list. I would be really disappointed to see them > > leave because this list degenerated into some sort of off-topic "how to > > program" tutorial group. > > > > This list is not moderated, so it is neither democratic (moderator chosen > > by vote) nor totalitarian (moderator is the list admin, Ray Ontko). > > Anarchy seems more accurate. As such, anyone can really post whatever > > they want, and we each make our own decision as to whether it is worth > > sticking around based on our own needs. We can all decide as a group that > > job posting are taboo, but we know full well that some people will still > > post them anyway. > > > > So all I can say is this: I would prefer that we stay generally on topic. > > And I would prefer that we not be deluged with trivial questions that are > > asked just to save someone else's time at the expense of my time. But > > these are my preferences based on my needs. If you or anyone else feels > > that it would be a good idea to encourage people to post off-topic or > > trivial questions, just consider what long-term utility you will be > > getting from this list. > > > > There's probably no point to debating this. Its not as if any decision > > would be binding, and this really could just be considered more "noise" > > on the list anyway. Each person can make up their own mind and do as they > > wish. Personally, I'm not going to whine about every post that goes > > off-topic or asks something really trivial, nor will I send nasty notes to > > people who post jobs here. Its not worth it and doesn't help in any case. > > But now and then I think its worthwhile to point out that this list is > > only as useful as we make it. > > > > Chris > > > > On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Ken Boettger wrote: > > > > > Chris, > > > > > > I am not certain I agree with this precept. It is a controversial one > and > > a common one, I know. But I wonder if it is an appropriate view. I quess I > > am a proponent of the "there is no stupid or silly questions" and that > > forums are a place of learning. > > > > > > In addition, I have been in IT for 15 years and work with many languages > > and tools. It is very hard to keep everything straight. Many times I will > > go to a list to get an answer to a simple issue that I cannot recall the > > answer too. Yes, the answer is in the FAQ or in the manuals. And I think > > they should be encouraged, but not enforced. The reason being that time is > > of the essence for many of us. On many occassions (both in the public and > > private sector), I will post a question and then proceed with something > else > > until a response comes back. From a statistical point of view, it might > > take me 5 or 10 minutes to find and read through a FAQ or manual before I > > find an anwser (if I can even remember where the manual is - or who > borrowed > > it last). Using a forum or list, I maybe type a concise question for 30 > > seconds, then spend another minute reading the responses - the point here > > being that a five fold increase in efficiency is significant from a > > temporal, financial and pro! > > fe! > > > ssional point of view. > > > > > > My question is, what is the position here? I believe in democracy and > > will go either way. But I have on many occasions posted simple questions > to > > this list. If such questions are not welcome, I will stop using this forum > > in that regard. And maybe we should consider an additional forum that > > subscribes to a more open view including novice type questions? There is > a > > definitely a need for such a forum. > > > > > > -Ken > > > > > > Ken Boettger > > > boettgek@cwu.edu > > > http://www.cwu.edu/~boettgek > > > x2944 > > > From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Fri Oct 4 09:29:28 2002 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 19:17:18 -0400 From: Doug Nichols Subject: Re: Purpose of this list Is there any way to get this guy thrown off this list? He's disruptive and abusive and very ignorant. -----Original Message----- From: Discussion of SQR, Brio Software's database reporting language [mailto:SQR-USERS@list.iex.net] On Behalf Of David Thorburn Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 7:02 PM To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net Subject: Re: Purpose of this list To Allen the can't-program, whiney, wimp, name caller... Why don't you shut the $%^## up or say that to my face you whiney liberal yap! I have every right to express my opinion. SQR is a programming language and this forum is for programmers, not touchy feely mealy-mouthed liberals like you. I make my living programming as do others out here who are concerned about the the effect of offshore piracy on our careers. What's the matter, am I getting in the way of your effort to get others to do your work for you! D. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allen Cunningham" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 8:04 AM Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > I agree Amy, there's just a handful of these idiots like him who have > destroyed this list. > > ac > > -----Original Message----- > From: Discussion of SQR, Brio Software's database reporting language > [mailto:SQR-USERS@list.iex.net]On Behalf Of Christenson, Amy > Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 6:26 AM > To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net > Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > > > Why don't you run for professional help and in the meantime stop abusing > this forum. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Thorburn [mailto:thorburn@CONL.NET] > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 6:25 PM > To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net > Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > > > perfect example of an unfocused liberal PC wishy washy response to a very > serious > situation. > > Why don't you run for President? > > > > D. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christenson, Amy" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 1:22 PM > Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > > > > I do; If you need help with PeopleSoft specific questions in the future, > > please join us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/peoplesoft-fans . I belong > > to both groups but move back and forth depending on my question. That way > > you can avoid at least a portion of this in the future. > > > > Amy > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Aaron M. Reiff [mailto:aaron.reiff@MAIL.RGSTR.WISC.EDU] > > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 4:03 PM > > To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net > > Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > > > > > > Perhaps we should all move on. All points seems to have been expressed, > > aired and otherwise worn-out. > > > > Does anyone have anything productive and non-threatening to say regarding > > this issue before we return to the business at hand? > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Discussion of SQR, Brio Software's database reporting language > > [mailto:SQR-USERS@list.iex.net]On Behalf Of Allen Cunningham > > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 2:37 PM > > To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net > > Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > > > > > > Chris - I certainly don't appreciate being lectured and scolded by you, > and > > your patronizing little suggestion to take a PeopleTools class. If your > > having a bad day, find a better way to deal with it than venting on this > > board. This was posted late Fri afternoon, it certainly didn't generate a > > lot of 'noise' that you say you are so worried about. If you don't like a > > posting, ignore it. > > > > ac > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Discussion of SQR, Brio Software's database reporting language > > [mailto:SQR-USERS@list.iex.net]On Behalf Of Chris Bennett > > Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 4:15 PM > > To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net > > Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > > > > > > Ken, > > > > That's an interesting question. Just for clarification let me point out > > that my primary concern was the potential trouble I foresaw Allen getting > > into if he tries to accomplish his goals by getting "step by step" > > instructions from this list. I thought it was a very valid and hopefully > > helpful answer to suggest that a class might be in his best interest. > > > > However, it is true that I was also concerned about the signal/noise ratio > > of this list, and I took the opportunity to also suggest that perhaps not > > everyone on the list would like to read a question and answer about basic > > PeopleTools (please note, however, that even after I said his post was > > off-topic and that he would be better served by taking a class, that I > > still answered the question). > > > > Anyway, to attempt to answer your question... > > > > According the the mailing list "hints and guidelines" > > (http://www.sqrug.org/sqr-users/sqr-users-hints.html), the only sections > > that directly refer to "etiquette" are the following: > > > > 1) "keep in mind that over 500 people will receive your message, and that > > it will appear in the list archives. Try to keep your messages on-topic > > and relatively short. Consider sending your message directly to particular > > people if it won't interest many of the list's subscribers." > > > > 2) "Please do not post job announcements on the sqr-users list, but use > > the sqr-jobs list instead. (See Related Mailing Lists for more information > > on this list.) A large number of sqr-users subscribers do not want to > > receive job announcements (for various reasons) and such posts tend to > > cause a lot of disruption of the discussion on the list." > > > > One could also read section 4.2 "Posting a Message" as strongly implying > > that messages posted here should relate specifically to SQR. > > > > Aside from this, I don't know what the "position" here is any more than > > you do (and as I'll explain below, to some extent it really doesn't > > matter), but I'll offer up my opinions. > > > > I'll start with two assumptions. These may be debatable, but I'll throw > > them out as a starting point: > > > > 1) Most people on this list are (more or less) well paid professionals > > > > 2) If there is too much noise the "gurus" that monitor this list will lose > > interest and leave. > > > > Given these assumptions, I have the following opinions: > > > > I don't want to be used as someone else's gopher for basic reference > > materials, and I suspect that other people on this list would rather not > > be used for that purpose either. While I enjoy helping someone who truly > > has a difficult or unusual problem, doing other people's work for them > > goes beyond the call of duty. Time is, indeed, of the essence for many of > > us, as you say. But why would one person's time be more important than > > mine? > > > > I also rely on this list as a resource to help out with any big problems I > > might run into, so I'm glad there are some very skilled and knowledgeable > > people that monitor this list. I would be really disappointed to see them > > leave because this list degenerated into some sort of off-topic "how to > > program" tutorial group. > > > > This list is not moderated, so it is neither democratic (moderator chosen > > by vote) nor totalitarian (moderator is the list admin, Ray Ontko). > > Anarchy seems more accurate. As such, anyone can really post whatever > > they want, and we each make our own decision as to whether it is worth > > sticking around based on our own needs. We can all decide as a group that > > job posting are taboo, but we know full well that some people will still > > post them anyway. > > > > So all I can say is this: I would prefer that we stay generally on topic. > > And I would prefer that we not be deluged with trivial questions that are > > asked just to save someone else's time at the expense of my time. But > > these are my preferences based on my needs. If you or anyone else feels > > that it would be a good idea to encourage people to post off-topic or > > trivial questions, just consider what long-term utility you will be > > getting from this list. > > > > There's probably no point to debating this. Its not as if any decision > > would be binding, and this really could just be considered more "noise" > > on the list anyway. Each person can make up their own mind and do as they > > wish. Personally, I'm not going to whine about every post that goes > > off-topic or asks something really trivial, nor will I send nasty notes to > > people who post jobs here. Its not worth it and doesn't help in any case. > > But now and then I think its worthwhile to point out that this list is > > only as useful as we make it. > > > > Chris > > > > On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Ken Boettger wrote: > > > > > Chris, > > > > > > I am not certain I agree with this precept. It is a controversial one > and > > a common one, I know. But I wonder if it is an appropriate view. I quess I > > am a proponent of the "there is no stupid or silly questions" and that > > forums are a place of learning. > > > > > > In addition, I have been in IT for 15 years and work with many languages > > and tools. It is very hard to keep everything straight. Many times I will > > go to a list to get an answer to a simple issue that I cannot recall the > > answer too. Yes, the answer is in the FAQ or in the manuals. And I think > > they should be encouraged, but not enforced. The reason being that time is > > of the essence for many of us. On many occassions (both in the public and > > private sector), I will post a question and then proceed with something > else > > until a response comes back. From a statistical point of view, it might > > take me 5 or 10 minutes to find and read through a FAQ or manual before I > > find an anwser (if I can even remember where the manual is - or who > borrowed > > it last). Using a forum or list, I maybe type a concise question for 30 > > seconds, then spend another minute reading the responses - the point here > > being that a five fold increase in efficiency is significant from a > > temporal, financial and pro! > > fe! > > > ssional point of view. > > > > > > My question is, what is the position here? I believe in democracy and > > will go either way. But I have on many occasions posted simple questions > to > > this list. If such questions are not welcome, I will stop using this forum > > in that regard. And maybe we should consider an additional forum that > > subscribes to a more open view including novice type questions? There is > a > > definitely a need for such a forum. > > > > > > -Ken > > > > > > Ken Boettger > > > boettgek@cwu.edu > > > http://www.cwu.edu/~boettgek > > > x2944 > > > From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Fri Oct 4 09:47:15 2002 Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 09:28:49 -0500 From: Ray Ontko Subject: Re: Purpose of this list Doug, On Wed, Oct 02, 2002 at 07:17:18PM -0400, Doug Nichols wrote: > Is there any way to get this guy thrown off this list? He's disruptive > and abusive and very ignorant. >From a technical standpoint, it's certainly possible, but, I'd prefer not to resort to totalitarian tactics. Clearly, Dave Thornburn feels his job security is threatened by competition from oversees, and as others have mentioned, there may be some political issues that are worthy of discussion. I'm pleased that Ken has created a separate forum for this and I hope that the conversation can proceed there more constructively and sensitively than it has here. I too feel that the work opportunities for consultants (including SQR consultants) has changed, but I perceive that the problem is less due to overseas competition and more due to the recession and the fact that fewer companies are investing as heavily in technology right now. It may also be time to learn a new language. I'm still a strong supporter of SQR, but I've take the time to learn a lot about Java and web-based technologies. If I stop learning new technologies, I won't be able to differentiate myself from the crowd. It may be time to catch a new wave. My own opinion about the list is that none of us has complete access to the Truth, and that we'll learn a lot more from each other if we listen to one another carefully and respond respectfully. Ray ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Ontko rayo@ontko.com Phone 1.765.935.4283 Fax 1.765.962.9788 Ray Ontko & Co. Software Consulting Services http://www.ontko.com/ From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Fri Oct 4 17:48:02 2002 Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 15:20:41 -0700 From: David Thorburn Subject: Re: Purpose of this list All, Why would Doug Nichols want me thorwn off the list for speaking the truth? This isn't the Soviet Union! I think Doug has problems that are well beyond the scope of this list! D. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Ontko" To: Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 7:28 AM Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > Doug, > > On Wed, Oct 02, 2002 at 07:17:18PM -0400, Doug Nichols wrote: > > Is there any way to get this guy thrown off this list? He's disruptive > > and abusive and very ignorant. > > From a technical standpoint, it's certainly possible, but, I'd > prefer not to resort to totalitarian tactics. > > Clearly, Dave Thornburn feels his job security is threatened by > competition from oversees, and as others have mentioned, there may > be some political issues that are worthy of discussion. I'm pleased > that Ken has created a separate forum for this and I hope that the > conversation can proceed there more constructively and sensitively > than it has here. > > I too feel that the work opportunities for consultants (including > SQR consultants) has changed, but I perceive that the problem is > less due to overseas competition and more due to the recession and > the fact that fewer companies are investing as heavily in technology > right now. It may also be time to learn a new language. I'm still > a strong supporter of SQR, but I've take the time to learn a lot > about Java and web-based technologies. If I stop learning new > technologies, I won't be able to differentiate myself from the > crowd. It may be time to catch a new wave. > > My own opinion about the list is that none of us has complete access > to the Truth, and that we'll learn a lot more from each other if we > listen to one another carefully and respond respectfully. > > Ray > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ray Ontko rayo@ontko.com Phone 1.765.935.4283 Fax 1.765.962.9788 > Ray Ontko & Co. Software Consulting Services http://www.ontko.com/ > From owner-sqr-users@list.iex.net Fri Oct 4 09:30:25 2002 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 16:04:34 -0700 From: David Thorburn Subject: Re: Purpose of this list Shouldn't you see your OB GYN or something! D. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christenson, Amy" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 6:25 AM Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > Why don't you run for professional help and in the meantime stop abusing > this forum. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Thorburn [mailto:thorburn@CONL.NET] > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 6:25 PM > To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net > Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > > > perfect example of an unfocused liberal PC wishy washy response to a very > serious > situation. > > Why don't you run for President? > > > > D. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christenson, Amy" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 1:22 PM > Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > > > > I do; If you need help with PeopleSoft specific questions in the future, > > please join us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/peoplesoft-fans . I belong > > to both groups but move back and forth depending on my question. That way > > you can avoid at least a portion of this in the future. > > > > Amy > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Aaron M. Reiff [mailto:aaron.reiff@MAIL.RGSTR.WISC.EDU] > > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 4:03 PM > > To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net > > Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > > > > > > Perhaps we should all move on. All points seems to have been expressed, > > aired and otherwise worn-out. > > > > Does anyone have anything productive and non-threatening to say regarding > > this issue before we return to the business at hand? > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Discussion of SQR, Brio Software's database reporting language > > [mailto:SQR-USERS@list.iex.net]On Behalf Of Allen Cunningham > > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 2:37 PM > > To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net > > Subject: Re: Purpose of this list > > > > > > Chris - I certainly don't appreciate being lectured and scolded by you, > and > > your patronizing little suggestion to take a PeopleTools class. If your > > having a bad day, find a better way to deal with it than venting on this > > board. This was posted late Fri afternoon, it certainly didn't generate a > > lot of 'noise' that you say you are so worried about. If you don't like a > > posting, ignore it. > > > > ac > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: D