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Re: OFF-TOPIC Re: An information pirate attempts to developopportunities!
Ken,
If you find a special interest group...I hope you'll share so that we all can
join in!
Sam
--- Ken Boettger <BoettgeK@CWU.EDU> wrote:
> I think that is the technology workers of America (engineers, programmers,
> etc).
>
> I will get on it.
>
> -Ken
>
> >>> teknogeek9@YAHOO.com 10/02/02 09:16AM >>>
> Ken,
> Honeywell is just the tip of the iceberg. Who knows who else is doing it.
> What we really need is a special interest group powerful enough to make an
> impact. Heck, I bet the AFL-CIO would certainly endorse and help one!
> Sam
>
>
>
> --- Ken Boettger <BoettgeK@CWU.EDU> wrote:
> > Honeywell? Outsourcing American jobs too???
> >
> > Thank you for making me aware of that. I will be writing them a letter and
> > talking to my congressman in regards to them too.
> >
> > -Ken
> >
> > >>> teknogeek9@YAHOO.com 10/02/02 05:40AM >>>
> > Paul,
> > I am not sure if you understand the content of my message. My beef is with
> > Corporate America more than the individual H1Bers themselves. Corporate
> > America is more to the blame than anything else. The H1B program was
> > established to address the issue of shortages of qualified programmers.
> But,
> > the H1B process is cumbersome and a royal pain in the butt to administer.
> > Hence, instead of being encumbered with that burden, they pass it off to
> the
> > American "subsidiaries" of offshore outsourcing companies. These companies
> > are
> > no different than the local personnel firm that serves as an "employer of
> > record" for many independent contractors. To me, using offshore companies
> to
> > get labor, cheap or not, is a way of circumventing the H1B process and
> > everything behind it.
> >
> > If Honeywell, or any other American corporation wants to hire someone from
> > another country, good for them! I'll applaud that effort because it levels
> > the
> > playing field. BUT, I will NOT endorse nor tolerate any efforts to exploit
> > loopholes in a process that was designed to be fair and equitable to all.
> > While it may not be illegal, its unethical, immoral and certainly goes
> > against
> > the patriotism of ones own country. For those who take advantage of
> > loopholes
> > in the process, please keep in mind Murphy's law..."what goes up, must come
> > down".
> >
> > Sam
> >
> > --- "O'riordan, Paul (EI05)" <Paul.O'riordan@HONEYWELL.COM> wrote:
> > > I'm not too sure that I like the tone of this string. It could be almost
> > > construed as imflammatory and racial and cultural predjudice.
> > > 1. you are assuming that everyone on the list is American or working
> there
> > > and everyone else is irrelevant. How nice of you to accept the H1Bs as
> > > people.
> > > 2. You are also forgetting that these Outsourcing companies have in the
> > main
> > > been set up by Corporate America as a means of expanding the Global
> economy
> > > and yes - getting cheaper labour.
> > > 3. Outsourcing occurs in almost every country in the world so I would
> like
> > > you to expand on how these places are all known to be Havens of espionage
> > > and piracy?
> > > I work for a multinational US based company with plants in over 100
> > > countries where yes - they do have the audacity to employ local talent -
> > > and we even in Ireland are a lot cheaper than the US alternative but we
> > also
> > > are losing out to the rise in "competition" from Asia - within our own
> > > company, but welcome to planet earth. You wanted capitalism and all of
> the
> > > world markets opened up? Well the traffic goes both ways and you have to
> > > accept it. We actually market ourselves as supplying quality product as
> > > programmers, which is in effect cheaper in the long run to use, compared
> to
> > > using cheaper, mass-produced work which needs constant attention, over
> runs
> > > budget and deadlines and then fails to work. $80 p/hour for 8 hours is
> > > cheaper than $40 and hour for something that takes twice as long to
> > develop,
> > > doesn't work, is not what the customer wanted and in the end, people like
> > us
> > > get the contract to "fix" the bugs and make it work.
> > > I know the point you are making but please think a little bit less
> > > parochially - especially when using a global mailing list.
> > > Regards,
> > > Paul
> > >
> > >
> > > Honeywell
> > >
> > > Paul O'Riordan Honeywell Application Services
> > > Application Developer Industrial Park, Cork Road
> > > PeopleSoft Applications, Waterford Ireland
> > >
> > > +353-51-309856
> > > Direct
> > > +353-51-309821 Fax
> > > +353-87-9083244 Mobile
> > > mailto:Paul.O'Riordan@honeywell.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Sam Spritzer [mailto:teknogeek9@YAHOO.COM]
> > > Sent: 02 October 2002 12:29
> > > To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net
> > > Subject: OFF-TOPIC Re: An information pirate attempts to develop
> > > opportunities!
> > >
> > >
> > > Generally speaking, this does not belong here but I think some degree of
> > > flexibility should be allowed to post off topic discussions which can
> have
> > a
> > > dramatic impact on our ability to be an SQRer. For those of you who are
> > not
> > > interested, please stop here and delete this. I have added OFF-TOPIC to
> > the
> > > subject line for this reason.
> > >
> > > I agree with David. The proliferation of off-shore outsourcing has
> > exploded
> > > over the last year. My own personal experience can testify to that both
> > > from
> > > an employed and unemployed perspective. This article seems to best
> address
> > > the
> > > issue:
> > > http://www.bayarea.com/mld/siliconvalley/4154071.htm
> > >
> > > I am not sure if the feds are doing anything but keep in mind, the
> offshore
> > > companies have a headstart - they have formed American subsidiaries which
> > > essentially serve as nothing more than conduits to the actual
> transaction.
> > >
> > > I have nothing against those who work for offshore companies and I have
> > > worked
> > > alongside several. The biggest barrier, of course, is language and
> > culture.
> > > My only concern is my own livelihood as an SQRer. But, I also think it
> is
> > a
> > > two-edged sword. Given today's economy and changing times, I think
> > > contracted
> > > rates of $75 or more (contracting firms are excluded) is considered
> > > excessive.
> > > The laws of supply and demand require we adjust accordingly.
> > Unfortunately,
> > > many folks simply fail to see that hence, they are priced out of the
> > market.
> > >
> > > At this point, I am not doing anything about it. Maybe I should...or
> maybe
> > > this discussion can evolve into a more positive voice which will give
> more
> > > power to deal with the issue. Who knows...lets see where this leads.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Sam
> > >
> > >
> > > --- David Thorburn <thorburn@CONL.NET> wrote:
> > > > To the list:
> > > >
> > > > This SPAM from an offshore outsourcing pirate, Mr. Reddy, arrived in my
> > > > email today.
> > > >
> > > > I just wanted to send this to the list, and selected media to make sure
> > > that
> > > > other
> > > > American IT Professionals are aware that people like this, who
> represent
> > > > offshore
> > > > development centers full of hordes of slaves, working in countries
> where
> > > > copyright and
> > > > patent laws are not respected, and, where most toil in slave
> programming
> > > > mills for
> > > > little more than their kids make rolling cigarettes are after your jobs
> > > and
> > > > career.
> > > >
> > > > Their aim is to put us out of business and replace us with their IT
> > > slaves.
> > > >
> > > > At least the imported H1B's spend money and pay taxes while they are
> > here!
> > > >
> > > > H1B's are people, but foreign outsourcers are pirates!
> > > >
> > > > Write your elected officials and demand that they put a stop to
> offshore
> > > > outsourcing now!
> > > >
> > > > Do you want your credit, personnel, financial, and medical information
> > > being
> > > > programmed, stored,
> > > > copied, communicated, and manipulated by these pirates and by their
> > slaves
> > > > in foreign countries?
> > > >
> > > > How can we expect our governments laws, which are meant to protect us,
> to
> > > > possibly
> > > > be enforced in these foreign counties known to be havens for espionage
> > and
> > > > piracy?
> > > >
> > > > The time to act is now.
> > > >
> > > > Be watchful and aware of the threat to your career, your credit rating,
> > > and
> > > > your privacy.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > David
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Elite Outsource International, Inc" <reddys@eliteoutsource.com>
> > > > To: <reddys@eliteoutsource.com>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 7:27 PM
> > > > Subject: Introducing - Elite Outsource International, Inc
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > This is Srinivas Reddy from Elite Outsource International, Inc. I am
> > > > writing
> > > > > this letter to introduce myself and Elite's services of Software
> > > > > Development,
> > > > > Staff Augmentation (Consulting & Staffing), Project Management
> > > > > (On Site & Off Shore) and outsourcing services, that we offer in the
> > > > > Information Technology Industry.
> > > > >
> > > > > Please note that, I am well aware of the current market situation and
> > my
> > > > > goal is to better utilize this quiet time to get to know each other
> and
> > > > > establish a mutual business understanding, that can be fruitful and
> > > > > beneficial to both our firms, towards your any and all future needs
> in
> > > the
> > > > > IT Discipline.
> > > > >
> > > > > I take this opportunity to bring to your attention of Elite Outsource
> > > > > International, Inc. A company that provides technology-driven
> services
> > > > > dedicated to helping its customers deploy, maximize, and manage
> > > > Information
> > > > > Systems Solutions. Elite Outsource International, Inc is one of
> > > America's
> > > > > fastest growing and dependable Private Company. Learn more about
> Elite
> > > > > Outsource International at www.eliteoutsource.com.
> > > > >
> > > > > I look forward to establishing a mutually beneficial relation between
> > > us.
> > > > I
> > > > > request you to contact me anytime without hesitation for any and all
> > > needs
> > > > > you come across in IT Industry.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sincerely,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Srinivas Reddy
> > > > > General Manager.
> > > > >
> > > > > Elite Outsource International, Inc
> > > > > Reinforcing Excellence
> > > > >
> > > > > 3-14, Fox Run Drive,
> > > > > Plainsboro,
> > > > > New Jersey - 08536
> > > > > www.eliteoutsource.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Phone: 609-716-7604
> > > > > Fax: 609-716-4911
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Under Bill s.1618 Title III passed by the 105th U.S.Congress this
> mail
> > > > > cannot be considered
> > > > > Spam as long as we include contact information and a remove link for
> > > > removal
> > > > > from our mailing
> > > > > list. To be removed from our mailing list reply to
> > > > > mailto:reddys@eliteoutsource.com?Subject=Remove
> > > > > with 'REMOVE' in the subject heading and your email address in the
> > body.
> > > > > Include complete address
> > > > > and/or domain/aliases to be removed. If you still get the mails,
> please
> > > > call
> > > > > us at the numbers given
> > > > > above.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > =====
> > > ************************************************************
> > > "In the beginning, there was something...which exploded yet, they find
> > > nothing."
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
> > > http://sbc.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> > =====
> > ************************************************************
> > "In the beginning, there was something...which exploded yet, they find
> > nothing."
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
> > http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
>
> =====
> ************************************************************
> "In the beginning, there was something...which exploded yet, they find
> nothing."
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
=====
************************************************************
"In the beginning, there was something...which exploded yet, they find nothing."
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com