Re: OFF-TOPIC Re: An information pirate attempts to developopportunities!

[Ken Boettger <BoettgeK@CWU.EDU>]

I think that is the technology workers of America  (engineers, programmers, 
etc).

I will get on it.

-Ken

>>> teknogeek9@YAHOO.com 10/02/02 09:16AM >>>
Ken,
Honeywell is just the tip of the iceberg.  Who knows who else is doing it.
What we really need is a special interest group powerful enough to make an
impact.  Heck, I bet the AFL-CIO would certainly endorse and help one!
Sam



--- Ken Boettger <BoettgeK@CWU.EDU> wrote:
> Honeywell?  Outsourcing American jobs too???
>
> Thank you for making me aware of that. I will be writing them a letter and
> talking to my congressman in regards to them too.
>
> -Ken
>
> >>> teknogeek9@YAHOO.com 10/02/02 05:40AM >>>
> Paul,
> I am not sure if you understand the content of my message.  My beef is with
> Corporate America more than the individual H1Bers themselves.  Corporate
> America is more to the blame than anything else.  The H1B program was
> established to address the issue of shortages of qualified programmers.  But,
> the H1B process is cumbersome and a royal pain in the butt to administer.
> Hence, instead of being encumbered with that burden, they pass it off to the
> American "subsidiaries" of offshore outsourcing companies.  These companies
> are
> no different than the local personnel firm that serves as an "employer of
> record" for many independent contractors.  To me, using offshore companies to
> get labor, cheap or not, is a way of circumventing the H1B process and
> everything behind it.
>
> If Honeywell, or any other American corporation wants to hire someone from
> another country, good for them!  I'll applaud that effort because it levels
> the
> playing field.  BUT, I will NOT endorse nor tolerate any efforts to exploit
> loopholes in a process that was designed to be fair and equitable to all.
> While it may not be illegal, its unethical, immoral and certainly goes
> against
> the patriotism of ones own country.  For those who take advantage of
> loopholes
> in the process, please keep in mind Murphy's law..."what goes up, must come
> down".
>
> Sam
>
> --- "O'riordan, Paul (EI05)" <Paul.O'riordan@HONEYWELL.COM> wrote:
> > I'm not too sure that I like the tone of this string. It could be almost
> > construed as imflammatory and racial and cultural predjudice.
> > 1. you are assuming that everyone on the list is American or working there
> > and everyone else is irrelevant. How nice of you to accept the H1Bs as
> > people.
> > 2. You are also forgetting that these Outsourcing companies have in the
> main
> > been set up by Corporate America as a means of expanding the Global economy
> > and yes - getting cheaper labour.
> > 3. Outsourcing occurs in almost every country in the world so I would like
> > you to expand on how these places are all known to be Havens of espionage
> > and piracy?
> > I work for a multinational US based company with plants in over 100
> > countries where yes - they do have the audacity to employ  local talent -
> > and we even in Ireland are a lot cheaper than the US alternative but we
> also
> > are losing out to the rise in "competition" from Asia - within our own
> > company, but welcome to planet earth. You wanted capitalism and all of the
> > world markets opened up? Well the traffic goes both ways and you have to
> > accept it. We actually market ourselves as supplying quality product as
> > programmers, which is in effect cheaper in the long run to use, compared to
> > using cheaper, mass-produced work which needs constant attention, over runs
> > budget and deadlines and then fails to work. $80 p/hour for 8 hours is
> > cheaper than $40 and hour for something that takes twice as long to
> develop,
> > doesn't work, is not what the customer wanted and in the end, people like
> us
> > get the contract to "fix" the bugs and make it work.
> > I know the point you are making but please think a little bit less
> > parochially - especially when using a global mailing list.
> >         Regards,
> >                 Paul
> >
> >
> > Honeywell
> >
> > Paul O'Riordan                  Honeywell Application Services
> > Application Developer           Industrial Park, Cork Road
> > PeopleSoft Applications,                Waterford Ireland
> >
> >                                                         +353-51-309856
> > Direct
> >                                 +353-51-309821 Fax
> >                                 +353-87-9083244 Mobile
> > mailto:Paul.O'Riordan@honeywell.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sam Spritzer [mailto:teknogeek9@YAHOO.COM]
> > Sent: 02 October 2002 12:29
> > To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net
> > Subject: OFF-TOPIC Re: An information pirate attempts to develop
> > opportunities!
> >
> >
> > Generally speaking, this does not belong here but I think some degree of
> > flexibility should be allowed to post off topic discussions which can have
> a
> > dramatic impact on our ability to be an SQRer.  For those of you who are
> not
> > interested, please stop here and delete this.  I have added OFF-TOPIC to
> the
> > subject line for this reason.
> >
> > I agree with David.  The proliferation of off-shore outsourcing has
> exploded
> > over the last year.  My own personal experience can testify to that both
> > from
> > an employed and unemployed perspective.  This article seems to best address
> > the
> > issue:
> > http://www.bayarea.com/mld/siliconvalley/4154071.htm
> >
> > I am not sure if the feds are doing anything but keep in mind, the offshore
> > companies have a headstart - they have formed American subsidiaries which
> > essentially serve as nothing more than conduits to the actual transaction.
> >
> > I have nothing against those who work for offshore companies and I have
> > worked
> > alongside several.  The biggest barrier, of course, is language and
> culture.
> > My only concern is my own livelihood as an SQRer.  But, I also think it is
> a
> > two-edged sword.  Given today's economy and changing times, I think
> > contracted
> > rates of $75 or more (contracting firms are excluded) is considered
> > excessive.
> > The laws of supply and demand require we adjust accordingly.
> Unfortunately,
> > many folks simply fail to see that hence, they are priced out of the
> market.
> >
> > At this point, I am not doing anything about it.  Maybe I should...or maybe
> > this discussion can evolve into a more positive voice which will give more
> > power to deal with the issue.  Who knows...lets see where this leads.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Sam
> >
> >
> > --- David Thorburn <thorburn@CONL.NET> wrote:
> > > To the list:
> > >
> > > This SPAM from an offshore outsourcing pirate, Mr. Reddy, arrived in my
> > > email today.
> > >
> > > I just wanted to send this to the list, and selected media to make sure
> > that
> > > other
> > > American IT Professionals are aware that people like this, who represent
> > > offshore
> > > development centers full of hordes of slaves, working in countries where
> > > copyright and
> > > patent laws are not respected, and, where most toil in slave programming
> > > mills for
> > > little more than their kids make rolling cigarettes are after your jobs
> > and
> > > career.
> > >
> > > Their aim is to put us out of business and replace us with their IT
> > slaves.
> > >
> > > At least the imported H1B's spend money and pay taxes while they are
> here!
> > >
> > > H1B's are people, but foreign outsourcers are pirates!
> > >
> > > Write your elected officials and demand that they put a stop to offshore
> > > outsourcing now!
> > >
> > > Do you want your credit, personnel, financial, and medical information
> > being
> > > programmed, stored,
> > > copied, communicated, and manipulated by these pirates and by their
> slaves
> > > in foreign countries?
> > >
> > > How can we expect our governments laws, which are meant to protect us, to
> > > possibly
> > > be enforced in these foreign counties known to be havens for espionage
> and
> > > piracy?
> > >
> > > The time to act is now.
> > >
> > > Be watchful and aware of the threat to your career, your credit rating,
> > and
> > > your privacy.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Elite Outsource International, Inc" <reddys@eliteoutsource.com>
> > > To: <reddys@eliteoutsource.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 7:27 PM
> > > Subject: Introducing - Elite Outsource International, Inc
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > This is Srinivas Reddy from Elite Outsource International, Inc. I am
> > > writing
> > > > this letter to introduce myself and Elite's services of Software
> > > > Development,
> > > > Staff Augmentation (Consulting & Staffing), Project Management
> > > > (On Site & Off Shore) and outsourcing services, that we offer in the
> > > > Information Technology Industry.
> > > >
> > > > Please note that, I am well aware of the current market situation and
> my
> > > > goal is to better utilize this quiet time to get to know each other and
> > > > establish a mutual business understanding, that can be fruitful and
> > > > beneficial to both our firms, towards your any and all future needs in
> > the
> > > > IT Discipline.
> > > >
> > > > I take this opportunity to bring to your attention of Elite Outsource
> > > > International, Inc. A company that provides technology-driven services
> > > > dedicated to helping its customers deploy, maximize, and manage
> > > Information
> > > > Systems Solutions. Elite Outsource International, Inc is one of
> > America's
> > > > fastest growing and dependable Private Company. Learn more about Elite
> > > > Outsource International at www.eliteoutsource.com.
> > > >
> > > > I look forward to establishing a mutually beneficial relation between
> > us.
> > > I
> > > > request you to contact me anytime without hesitation for any and all
> > needs
> > > > you come across in IT Industry.
> > > >
> > > > Sincerely,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Srinivas Reddy
> > > > General Manager.
> > > >
> > > > Elite Outsource International, Inc
> > > > Reinforcing Excellence
> > > >
> > > > 3-14, Fox Run Drive,
> > > > Plainsboro,
> > > > New Jersey - 08536
> > > > www.eliteoutsource.com
> > > >
> > > > Phone: 609-716-7604
> > > > Fax:   609-716-4911
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Under Bill s.1618 Title III passed by the 105th U.S.Congress this mail
> > > > cannot be considered
> > > > Spam as long as we include contact information and a remove link for
> > > removal
> > > > from our mailing
> > > > list. To be removed from our mailing list reply to
> > > > mailto:reddys@eliteoutsource.com?Subject=Remove
> > > > with 'REMOVE' in the subject heading and your email address in the
> body.
> > > > Include complete address
> > > > and/or domain/aliases to be removed. If you still get the mails, please
> > > call
> > > > us at the numbers given
> > > > above.
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > ************************************************************
> > "In the beginning, there was something...which exploded yet, they find
> > nothing."
> >
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>
>
> =====
> ************************************************************
> "In the beginning, there was something...which exploded yet, they find
> nothing."
>
> __________________________________________________
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=====
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