Re: OFF-TOPIC Re: An information pirate attempts to develop oppor tunities!

["McCown, Larry" <MCCOWLA@MAIL.NORTHGRUM.COM>]

Or at least find a YAHOO political group that would love to carry on this
conversation while the rest of us get back to what "Corporate America" is
paying us to do.

Are any of us naive or young enough not to recall when items were considered
cheep if they were made in Japan or Taiwan as they are now with China.  Or
when was the last time you could carry on a conversation with a janitor or
cleaning person in the same language or better yet order fast food and
understand what you ordered! (In Southern California these are rare cases)
How about trying to even find something that is made in the USA!  Greed is
at the bottom of the social ladder just as it is at the top.  When we go to
the store do we buy the most expensive item just because it was partially
made in the USA or the cheaper item made in an underdeveloped country.
Generic or name brand?
How many of us would hang onto stock that was making items only in America
but losing money because the customers where buying cheaper products made in
other countries?

"For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing
for it, have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many
grief's." 1 Timothy 6:10

Answer the posts you want to help and ignore those you don't.


-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Spritzer [mailto:teknogeek9@YAHOO.COM]
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 9:16 AM
To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net
Subject: Re: OFF-TOPIC Re: An information pirate attempts to develop
opportunities!


Ken,
Honeywell is just the tip of the iceberg.  Who knows who else is doing it.
What we really need is a special interest group powerful enough to make an
impact.  Heck, I bet the AFL-CIO would certainly endorse and help one!
Sam



--- Ken Boettger <BoettgeK@CWU.EDU> wrote:
> Honeywell?  Outsourcing American jobs too???
>
> Thank you for making me aware of that. I will be writing them a letter and
> talking to my congressman in regards to them too.
>
> -Ken
>
> >>> teknogeek9@YAHOO.com 10/02/02 05:40AM >>>
> Paul,
> I am not sure if you understand the content of my message.  My beef is
with
> Corporate America more than the individual H1Bers themselves.  Corporate
> America is more to the blame than anything else.  The H1B program was
> established to address the issue of shortages of qualified programmers.
But,
> the H1B process is cumbersome and a royal pain in the butt to administer.
> Hence, instead of being encumbered with that burden, they pass it off to
the
> American "subsidiaries" of offshore outsourcing companies.  These
companies
> are
> no different than the local personnel firm that serves as an "employer of
> record" for many independent contractors.  To me, using offshore companies
to
> get labor, cheap or not, is a way of circumventing the H1B process and
> everything behind it.
>
> If Honeywell, or any other American corporation wants to hire someone from
> another country, good for them!  I'll applaud that effort because it
levels
> the
> playing field.  BUT, I will NOT endorse nor tolerate any efforts to
exploit
> loopholes in a process that was designed to be fair and equitable to all.
> While it may not be illegal, its unethical, immoral and certainly goes
> against
> the patriotism of ones own country.  For those who take advantage of
> loopholes
> in the process, please keep in mind Murphy's law..."what goes up, must
come
> down".
>
> Sam
>
> --- "O'riordan, Paul (EI05)" <Paul.O'riordan@HONEYWELL.COM> wrote:
> > I'm not too sure that I like the tone of this string. It could be almost
> > construed as imflammatory and racial and cultural predjudice.
> > 1. you are assuming that everyone on the list is American or working
there
> > and everyone else is irrelevant. How nice of you to accept the H1Bs as
> > people.
> > 2. You are also forgetting that these Outsourcing companies have in the
> main
> > been set up by Corporate America as a means of expanding the Global
economy
> > and yes - getting cheaper labour.
> > 3. Outsourcing occurs in almost every country in the world so I would
like
> > you to expand on how these places are all known to be Havens of
espionage
> > and piracy?
> > I work for a multinational US based company with plants in over 100
> > countries where yes - they do have the audacity to employ  local talent
-
> > and we even in Ireland are a lot cheaper than the US alternative but we
> also
> > are losing out to the rise in "competition" from Asia - within our own
> > company, but welcome to planet earth. You wanted capitalism and all of
the
> > world markets opened up? Well the traffic goes both ways and you have to
> > accept it. We actually market ourselves as supplying quality product as
> > programmers, which is in effect cheaper in the long run to use, compared
to
> > using cheaper, mass-produced work which needs constant attention, over
runs
> > budget and deadlines and then fails to work. $80 p/hour for 8 hours is
> > cheaper than $40 and hour for something that takes twice as long to
> develop,
> > doesn't work, is not what the customer wanted and in the end, people
like
> us
> > get the contract to "fix" the bugs and make it work.
> > I know the point you are making but please think a little bit less
> > parochially - especially when using a global mailing list.
> >         Regards,
> >                 Paul
> >
> >
> > Honeywell
> >
> > Paul O'Riordan                  Honeywell Application Services
> > Application Developer           Industrial Park, Cork Road
> > PeopleSoft Applications,                Waterford Ireland
> >
> >                                                         +353-51-309856
> > Direct
> >                                 +353-51-309821 Fax
> >                                 +353-87-9083244 Mobile
> > mailto:Paul.O'Riordan@honeywell.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sam Spritzer [mailto:teknogeek9@YAHOO.COM]
> > Sent: 02 October 2002 12:29
> > To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net
> > Subject: OFF-TOPIC Re: An information pirate attempts to develop
> > opportunities!
> >
> >
> > Generally speaking, this does not belong here but I think some degree of
> > flexibility should be allowed to post off topic discussions which can
have
> a
> > dramatic impact on our ability to be an SQRer.  For those of you who are
> not
> > interested, please stop here and delete this.  I have added OFF-TOPIC to
> the
> > subject line for this reason.
> >
> > I agree with David.  The proliferation of off-shore outsourcing has
> exploded
> > over the last year.  My own personal experience can testify to that both
> > from
> > an employed and unemployed perspective.  This article seems to best
address
> > the
> > issue:
> > http://www.bayarea.com/mld/siliconvalley/4154071.htm
> >
> > I am not sure if the feds are doing anything but keep in mind, the
offshore
> > companies have a headstart - they have formed American subsidiaries
which
> > essentially serve as nothing more than conduits to the actual
transaction.
> >
> > I have nothing against those who work for offshore companies and I have
> > worked
> > alongside several.  The biggest barrier, of course, is language and
> culture.
> > My only concern is my own livelihood as an SQRer.  But, I also think it
is
> a
> > two-edged sword.  Given today's economy and changing times, I think
> > contracted
> > rates of $75 or more (contracting firms are excluded) is considered
> > excessive.
> > The laws of supply and demand require we adjust accordingly.
> Unfortunately,
> > many folks simply fail to see that hence, they are priced out of the
> market.
> >
> > At this point, I am not doing anything about it.  Maybe I should...or
maybe
> > this discussion can evolve into a more positive voice which will give
more
> > power to deal with the issue.  Who knows...lets see where this leads.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Sam
> >
> >
> > --- David Thorburn <thorburn@CONL.NET> wrote:
> > > To the list:
> > >
> > > This SPAM from an offshore outsourcing pirate, Mr. Reddy, arrived in
my
> > > email today.
> > >
> > > I just wanted to send this to the list, and selected media to make
sure
> > that
> > > other
> > > American IT Professionals are aware that people like this, who
represent
> > > offshore
> > > development centers full of hordes of slaves, working in countries
where
> > > copyright and
> > > patent laws are not respected, and, where most toil in slave
programming
> > > mills for
> > > little more than their kids make rolling cigarettes are after your
jobs
> > and
> > > career.
> > >
> > > Their aim is to put us out of business and replace us with their IT
> > slaves.
> > >
> > > At least the imported H1B's spend money and pay taxes while they are
> here!
> > >
> > > H1B's are people, but foreign outsourcers are pirates!
> > >
> > > Write your elected officials and demand that they put a stop to
offshore
> > > outsourcing now!
> > >
> > > Do you want your credit, personnel, financial, and medical information
> > being
> > > programmed, stored,
> > > copied, communicated, and manipulated by these pirates and by their
> slaves
> > > in foreign countries?
> > >
> > > How can we expect our governments laws, which are meant to protect us,
to
> > > possibly
> > > be enforced in these foreign counties known to be havens for espionage
> and
> > > piracy?
> > >
> > > The time to act is now.
> > >
> > > Be watchful and aware of the threat to your career, your credit
rating,
> > and
> > > your privacy.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Elite Outsource International, Inc" <reddys@eliteoutsource.com>
> > > To: <reddys@eliteoutsource.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 7:27 PM
> > > Subject: Introducing - Elite Outsource International, Inc
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > This is Srinivas Reddy from Elite Outsource International, Inc. I am
> > > writing
> > > > this letter to introduce myself and Elite's services of Software
> > > > Development,
> > > > Staff Augmentation (Consulting & Staffing), Project Management
> > > > (On Site & Off Shore) and outsourcing services, that we offer in the
> > > > Information Technology Industry.
> > > >
> > > > Please note that, I am well aware of the current market situation
and
> my
> > > > goal is to better utilize this quiet time to get to know each other
and
> > > > establish a mutual business understanding, that can be fruitful and
> > > > beneficial to both our firms, towards your any and all future needs
in
> > the
> > > > IT Discipline.
> > > >
> > > > I take this opportunity to bring to your attention of Elite
Outsource
> > > > International, Inc. A company that provides technology-driven
services
> > > > dedicated to helping its customers deploy, maximize, and manage
> > > Information
> > > > Systems Solutions. Elite Outsource International, Inc is one of
> > America's
> > > > fastest growing and dependable Private Company. Learn more about
Elite
> > > > Outsource International at www.eliteoutsource.com.
> > > >
> > > > I look forward to establishing a mutually beneficial relation
between
> > us.
> > > I
> > > > request you to contact me anytime without hesitation for any and all
> > needs
> > > > you come across in IT Industry.
> > > >
> > > > Sincerely,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Srinivas Reddy
> > > > General Manager.
> > > >
> > > > Elite Outsource International, Inc
> > > > Reinforcing Excellence
> > > >
> > > > 3-14, Fox Run Drive,
> > > > Plainsboro,
> > > > New Jersey - 08536
> > > > www.eliteoutsource.com
> > > >
> > > > Phone: 609-716-7604
> > > > Fax:   609-716-4911
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Under Bill s.1618 Title III passed by the 105th U.S.Congress this
mail
> > > > cannot be considered
> > > > Spam as long as we include contact information and a remove link for
> > > removal
> > > > from our mailing
> > > > list. To be removed from our mailing list reply to
> > > > mailto:reddys@eliteoutsource.com?Subject=Remove
> > > > with 'REMOVE' in the subject heading and your email address in the
> body.
> > > > Include complete address
> > > > and/or domain/aliases to be removed. If you still get the mails,
please
> > > call
> > > > us at the numbers given
> > > > above.
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > ************************************************************
> > "In the beginning, there was something...which exploded yet, they find
> > nothing."
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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>
>
> =====
> ************************************************************
> "In the beginning, there was something...which exploded yet, they find
> nothing."
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com


=====
************************************************************
"In the beginning, there was something...which exploded yet, they find
nothing."

__________________________________________________
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