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Re: OFF-TOPIC Re: An information pirate attempts to develop oppor tunities!

I'm not too sure that I like the tone of this string. It could be almost
construed as imflammatory and racial and cultural predjudice.
1. you are assuming that everyone on the list is American or working there
and everyone else is irrelevant. How nice of you to accept the H1Bs as
people.
2. You are also forgetting that these Outsourcing companies have in the main
been set up by Corporate America as a means of expanding the Global economy
and yes - getting cheaper labour.
3. Outsourcing occurs in almost every country in the world so I would like
you to expand on how these places are all known to be Havens of espionage
and piracy?
I work for a multinational US based company with plants in over 100
countries where yes - they do have the audacity to employ  local talent -
and we even in Ireland are a lot cheaper than the US alternative but we also
are losing out to the rise in "competition" from Asia - within our own
company, but welcome to planet earth. You wanted capitalism and all of the
world markets opened up? Well the traffic goes both ways and you have to
accept it. We actually market ourselves as supplying quality product as
programmers, which is in effect cheaper in the long run to use, compared to
using cheaper, mass-produced work which needs constant attention, over runs
budget and deadlines and then fails to work. $80 p/hour for 8 hours is
cheaper than $40 and hour for something that takes twice as long to develop,
doesn't work, is not what the customer wanted and in the end, people like us
get the contract to "fix" the bugs and make it work.
I know the point you are making but please think a little bit less
parochially - especially when using a global mailing list.
        Regards,
                Paul


Honeywell

Paul O'Riordan                  Honeywell Application Services
Application Developer           Industrial Park, Cork Road
PeopleSoft Applications,                Waterford Ireland

                                                        +353-51-309856
Direct
                                +353-51-309821 Fax
                                +353-87-9083244 Mobile
mailto:Paul.O'Riordan@honeywell.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Spritzer [mailto:teknogeek9@YAHOO.COM]
Sent: 02 October 2002 12:29
To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net
Subject: OFF-TOPIC Re: An information pirate attempts to develop
opportunities!


Generally speaking, this does not belong here but I think some degree of
flexibility should be allowed to post off topic discussions which can have a
dramatic impact on our ability to be an SQRer.  For those of you who are not
interested, please stop here and delete this.  I have added OFF-TOPIC to the
subject line for this reason.

I agree with David.  The proliferation of off-shore outsourcing has exploded
over the last year.  My own personal experience can testify to that both
from
an employed and unemployed perspective.  This article seems to best address
the
issue:
http://www.bayarea.com/mld/siliconvalley/4154071.htm

I am not sure if the feds are doing anything but keep in mind, the offshore
companies have a headstart - they have formed American subsidiaries which
essentially serve as nothing more than conduits to the actual transaction.

I have nothing against those who work for offshore companies and I have
worked
alongside several.  The biggest barrier, of course, is language and culture.
My only concern is my own livelihood as an SQRer.  But, I also think it is a
two-edged sword.  Given today's economy and changing times, I think
contracted
rates of $75 or more (contracting firms are excluded) is considered
excessive.
The laws of supply and demand require we adjust accordingly.  Unfortunately,
many folks simply fail to see that hence, they are priced out of the market.

At this point, I am not doing anything about it.  Maybe I should...or maybe
this discussion can evolve into a more positive voice which will give more
power to deal with the issue.  Who knows...lets see where this leads.

Regards,
Sam


--- David Thorburn <thorburn@CONL.NET> wrote:
> To the list:
>
> This SPAM from an offshore outsourcing pirate, Mr. Reddy, arrived in my
> email today.
>
> I just wanted to send this to the list, and selected media to make sure
that
> other
> American IT Professionals are aware that people like this, who represent
> offshore
> development centers full of hordes of slaves, working in countries where
> copyright and
> patent laws are not respected, and, where most toil in slave programming
> mills for
> little more than their kids make rolling cigarettes are after your jobs
and
> career.
>
> Their aim is to put us out of business and replace us with their IT
slaves.
>
> At least the imported H1B's spend money and pay taxes while they are here!
>
> H1B's are people, but foreign outsourcers are pirates!
>
> Write your elected officials and demand that they put a stop to offshore
> outsourcing now!
>
> Do you want your credit, personnel, financial, and medical information
being
> programmed, stored,
> copied, communicated, and manipulated by these pirates and by their slaves
> in foreign countries?
>
> How can we expect our governments laws, which are meant to protect us, to
> possibly
> be enforced in these foreign counties known to be havens for espionage and
> piracy?
>
> The time to act is now.
>
> Be watchful and aware of the threat to your career, your credit rating,
and
> your privacy.
>
> Regards,
>
> David
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Elite Outsource International, Inc" <reddys@eliteoutsource.com>
> To: <reddys@eliteoutsource.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 7:27 PM
> Subject: Introducing - Elite Outsource International, Inc
>
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > This is Srinivas Reddy from Elite Outsource International, Inc. I am
> writing
> > this letter to introduce myself and Elite's services of Software
> > Development,
> > Staff Augmentation (Consulting & Staffing), Project Management
> > (On Site & Off Shore) and outsourcing services, that we offer in the
> > Information Technology Industry.
> >
> > Please note that, I am well aware of the current market situation and my
> > goal is to better utilize this quiet time to get to know each other and
> > establish a mutual business understanding, that can be fruitful and
> > beneficial to both our firms, towards your any and all future needs in
the
> > IT Discipline.
> >
> > I take this opportunity to bring to your attention of Elite Outsource
> > International, Inc. A company that provides technology-driven services
> > dedicated to helping its customers deploy, maximize, and manage
> Information
> > Systems Solutions. Elite Outsource International, Inc is one of
America's
> > fastest growing and dependable Private Company. Learn more about Elite
> > Outsource International at www.eliteoutsource.com.
> >
> > I look forward to establishing a mutually beneficial relation between
us.
> I
> > request you to contact me anytime without hesitation for any and all
needs
> > you come across in IT Industry.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> >
> > Srinivas Reddy
> > General Manager.
> >
> > Elite Outsource International, Inc
> > Reinforcing Excellence
> >
> > 3-14, Fox Run Drive,
> > Plainsboro,
> > New Jersey - 08536
> > www.eliteoutsource.com
> >
> > Phone: 609-716-7604
> > Fax:   609-716-4911
> >
> >
> > Under Bill s.1618 Title III passed by the 105th U.S.Congress this mail
> > cannot be considered
> > Spam as long as we include contact information and a remove link for
> removal
> > from our mailing
> > list. To be removed from our mailing list reply to
> > mailto:reddys@eliteoutsource.com?Subject=Remove
> > with 'REMOVE' in the subject heading and your email address in the body.
> > Include complete address
> > and/or domain/aliases to be removed. If you still get the mails, please
> call
> > us at the numbers given
> > above.
> >
> >


=====
************************************************************
"In the beginning, there was something...which exploded yet, they find
nothing."

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