Re: OFF-TOPIC Re: An information pirate attempts to develop opportunities!

[Ken Boettger <BoettgeK@CWU.EDU>]

Honeywell?  Outsourcing American jobs too???

Thank you for making me aware of that. I will be writing them a letter and 
talking to my congressman in regards to them too.

-Ken

>>> teknogeek9@YAHOO.com 10/02/02 05:40AM >>>
Paul,
I am not sure if you understand the content of my message.  My beef is with
Corporate America more than the individual H1Bers themselves.  Corporate
America is more to the blame than anything else.  The H1B program was
established to address the issue of shortages of qualified programmers.  But,
the H1B process is cumbersome and a royal pain in the butt to administer.
Hence, instead of being encumbered with that burden, they pass it off to the
American "subsidiaries" of offshore outsourcing companies.  These companies are
no different than the local personnel firm that serves as an "employer of
record" for many independent contractors.  To me, using offshore companies to
get labor, cheap or not, is a way of circumventing the H1B process and
everything behind it.

If Honeywell, or any other American corporation wants to hire someone from
another country, good for them!  I'll applaud that effort because it levels the
playing field.  BUT, I will NOT endorse nor tolerate any efforts to exploit
loopholes in a process that was designed to be fair and equitable to all.
While it may not be illegal, its unethical, immoral and certainly goes against
the patriotism of ones own country.  For those who take advantage of loopholes
in the process, please keep in mind Murphy's law..."what goes up, must come
down".

Sam

--- "O'riordan, Paul (EI05)" <Paul.O'riordan@HONEYWELL.COM> wrote:
> I'm not too sure that I like the tone of this string. It could be almost
> construed as imflammatory and racial and cultural predjudice.
> 1. you are assuming that everyone on the list is American or working there
> and everyone else is irrelevant. How nice of you to accept the H1Bs as
> people.
> 2. You are also forgetting that these Outsourcing companies have in the main
> been set up by Corporate America as a means of expanding the Global economy
> and yes - getting cheaper labour.
> 3. Outsourcing occurs in almost every country in the world so I would like
> you to expand on how these places are all known to be Havens of espionage
> and piracy?
> I work for a multinational US based company with plants in over 100
> countries where yes - they do have the audacity to employ  local talent -
> and we even in Ireland are a lot cheaper than the US alternative but we also
> are losing out to the rise in "competition" from Asia - within our own
> company, but welcome to planet earth. You wanted capitalism and all of the
> world markets opened up? Well the traffic goes both ways and you have to
> accept it. We actually market ourselves as supplying quality product as
> programmers, which is in effect cheaper in the long run to use, compared to
> using cheaper, mass-produced work which needs constant attention, over runs
> budget and deadlines and then fails to work. $80 p/hour for 8 hours is
> cheaper than $40 and hour for something that takes twice as long to develop,
> doesn't work, is not what the customer wanted and in the end, people like us
> get the contract to "fix" the bugs and make it work.
> I know the point you are making but please think a little bit less
> parochially - especially when using a global mailing list.
>         Regards,
>                 Paul
>
>
> Honeywell
>
> Paul O'Riordan                  Honeywell Application Services
> Application Developer           Industrial Park, Cork Road
> PeopleSoft Applications,                Waterford Ireland
>
>                                                         +353-51-309856
> Direct
>                                 +353-51-309821 Fax
>                                 +353-87-9083244 Mobile
> mailto:Paul.O'Riordan@honeywell.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sam Spritzer [mailto:teknogeek9@YAHOO.COM]
> Sent: 02 October 2002 12:29
> To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net
> Subject: OFF-TOPIC Re: An information pirate attempts to develop
> opportunities!
>
>
> Generally speaking, this does not belong here but I think some degree of
> flexibility should be allowed to post off topic discussions which can have a
> dramatic impact on our ability to be an SQRer.  For those of you who are not
> interested, please stop here and delete this.  I have added OFF-TOPIC to the
> subject line for this reason.
>
> I agree with David.  The proliferation of off-shore outsourcing has exploded
> over the last year.  My own personal experience can testify to that both
> from
> an employed and unemployed perspective.  This article seems to best address
> the
> issue:
> http://www.bayarea.com/mld/siliconvalley/4154071.htm
>
> I am not sure if the feds are doing anything but keep in mind, the offshore
> companies have a headstart - they have formed American subsidiaries which
> essentially serve as nothing more than conduits to the actual transaction.
>
> I have nothing against those who work for offshore companies and I have
> worked
> alongside several.  The biggest barrier, of course, is language and culture.
> My only concern is my own livelihood as an SQRer.  But, I also think it is a
> two-edged sword.  Given today's economy and changing times, I think
> contracted
> rates of $75 or more (contracting firms are excluded) is considered
> excessive.
> The laws of supply and demand require we adjust accordingly.  Unfortunately,
> many folks simply fail to see that hence, they are priced out of the market.
>
> At this point, I am not doing anything about it.  Maybe I should...or maybe
> this discussion can evolve into a more positive voice which will give more
> power to deal with the issue.  Who knows...lets see where this leads.
>
> Regards,
> Sam
>
>
> --- David Thorburn <thorburn@CONL.NET> wrote:
> > To the list:
> >
> > This SPAM from an offshore outsourcing pirate, Mr. Reddy, arrived in my
> > email today.
> >
> > I just wanted to send this to the list, and selected media to make sure
> that
> > other
> > American IT Professionals are aware that people like this, who represent
> > offshore
> > development centers full of hordes of slaves, working in countries where
> > copyright and
> > patent laws are not respected, and, where most toil in slave programming
> > mills for
> > little more than their kids make rolling cigarettes are after your jobs
> and
> > career.
> >
> > Their aim is to put us out of business and replace us with their IT
> slaves.
> >
> > At least the imported H1B's spend money and pay taxes while they are here!
> >
> > H1B's are people, but foreign outsourcers are pirates!
> >
> > Write your elected officials and demand that they put a stop to offshore
> > outsourcing now!
> >
> > Do you want your credit, personnel, financial, and medical information
> being
> > programmed, stored,
> > copied, communicated, and manipulated by these pirates and by their slaves
> > in foreign countries?
> >
> > How can we expect our governments laws, which are meant to protect us, to
> > possibly
> > be enforced in these foreign counties known to be havens for espionage and
> > piracy?
> >
> > The time to act is now.
> >
> > Be watchful and aware of the threat to your career, your credit rating,
> and
> > your privacy.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Elite Outsource International, Inc" <reddys@eliteoutsource.com>
> > To: <reddys@eliteoutsource.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 7:27 PM
> > Subject: Introducing - Elite Outsource International, Inc
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > This is Srinivas Reddy from Elite Outsource International, Inc. I am
> > writing
> > > this letter to introduce myself and Elite's services of Software
> > > Development,
> > > Staff Augmentation (Consulting & Staffing), Project Management
> > > (On Site & Off Shore) and outsourcing services, that we offer in the
> > > Information Technology Industry.
> > >
> > > Please note that, I am well aware of the current market situation and my
> > > goal is to better utilize this quiet time to get to know each other and
> > > establish a mutual business understanding, that can be fruitful and
> > > beneficial to both our firms, towards your any and all future needs in
> the
> > > IT Discipline.
> > >
> > > I take this opportunity to bring to your attention of Elite Outsource
> > > International, Inc. A company that provides technology-driven services
> > > dedicated to helping its customers deploy, maximize, and manage
> > Information
> > > Systems Solutions. Elite Outsource International, Inc is one of
> America's
> > > fastest growing and dependable Private Company. Learn more about Elite
> > > Outsource International at www.eliteoutsource.com.
> > >
> > > I look forward to establishing a mutually beneficial relation between
> us.
> > I
> > > request you to contact me anytime without hesitation for any and all
> needs
> > > you come across in IT Industry.
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > >
> > >
> > > Srinivas Reddy
> > > General Manager.
> > >
> > > Elite Outsource International, Inc
> > > Reinforcing Excellence
> > >
> > > 3-14, Fox Run Drive,
> > > Plainsboro,
> > > New Jersey - 08536
> > > www.eliteoutsource.com
> > >
> > > Phone: 609-716-7604
> > > Fax:   609-716-4911
> > >
> > >
> > > Under Bill s.1618 Title III passed by the 105th U.S.Congress this mail
> > > cannot be considered
> > > Spam as long as we include contact information and a remove link for
> > removal
> > > from our mailing
> > > list. To be removed from our mailing list reply to
> > > mailto:reddys@eliteoutsource.com?Subject=Remove
> > > with 'REMOVE' in the subject heading and your email address in the body.
> > > Include complete address
> > > and/or domain/aliases to be removed. If you still get the mails, please
> > call
> > > us at the numbers given
> > > above.
> > >
> > >
>
>
> =====
> ************************************************************
> "In the beginning, there was something...which exploded yet, they find
> nothing."
>
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=====
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