Re: Purpose of this list

[Allen Cunningham <allen.cunningham@SONOMA.EDU>]

Chris - I certainly don't appreciate being lectured and scolded by you, and
your patronizing little suggestion to take a PeopleTools class. If your
having a bad day, find a better way to deal with it than venting on this
board. This was posted late Fri afternoon, it certainly didn't generate a
lot of 'noise' that you say you are so worried about. If you don't like a
posting, ignore it.

ac

-----Original Message-----
From: Discussion of SQR, Brio Software's database reporting language
[mailto:SQR-USERS@list.iex.net]On Behalf Of Chris Bennett
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 4:15 PM
To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net
Subject: Re: Purpose of this list


Ken,

That's an interesting question.  Just for clarification let me point out
that my primary concern was the potential trouble I foresaw Allen getting
into if he tries to accomplish his goals by getting "step by step"
instructions from this list.  I thought it was a very valid and hopefully
helpful answer to suggest that a class might be in his best interest.

However, it is true that I was also concerned about the signal/noise ratio
of this list, and I took the opportunity to also suggest that perhaps not
everyone on the list would like to read a question and answer about basic
PeopleTools (please note, however, that even after I said his post was
off-topic and that he would be better served by taking a class, that I
still answered the question).

Anyway, to attempt to answer your question...

According the the mailing list "hints and guidelines"
(http://www.sqrug.org/sqr-users/sqr-users-hints.html), the only sections
that directly refer to "etiquette" are the following:

1) "keep in mind that over 500 people will receive your message, and that
it will appear in the list archives. Try to keep your messages on-topic
and relatively short. Consider sending your message directly to particular
people if it won't interest many of the list's subscribers."

2) "Please do not post job announcements on the sqr-users list, but use
the sqr-jobs list instead. (See Related Mailing Lists for more information
on this list.) A large number of sqr-users subscribers do not want to
receive job announcements (for various reasons) and such posts tend to
cause a lot of disruption of the discussion on the list."

One could also read section 4.2 "Posting a Message" as strongly implying
that messages posted here should relate specifically to SQR.

Aside from this, I don't know what the "position" here is any more than
you do (and as I'll explain below, to some extent it really doesn't
matter), but I'll offer up my opinions.

I'll start with two assumptions.  These may be debatable, but I'll throw
them out as a starting point:

1) Most people on this list are (more or less) well paid professionals

2) If there is too much noise the "gurus" that monitor this list will lose
interest and leave.

Given these assumptions, I have the following opinions:

I don't want to be used as someone else's gopher for basic reference
materials, and I suspect that other people on this list would rather not
be used for that purpose either.  While I enjoy helping someone who truly
has a difficult or unusual problem, doing other people's work for them
goes beyond the call of duty.  Time is, indeed, of the essence for many of
us, as you say.  But why would one person's time be more important than
mine?

I also rely on this list as a resource to help out with any big problems I
might run into, so I'm glad there are some very skilled and knowledgeable
people that monitor this list.  I would be really disappointed to see them
leave because this list degenerated into some sort of off-topic "how to
program"  tutorial group.

This list is not moderated, so it is neither democratic (moderator chosen
by vote) nor totalitarian (moderator is the list admin, Ray Ontko).
Anarchy seems more accurate.  As such, anyone can really post whatever
they want, and we each make our own decision as to whether it is worth
sticking around based on our own needs.  We can all decide as a group that
job posting are taboo, but we know full well that some people will still
post them anyway.

So all I can say is this:  I would prefer that we stay generally on topic.
And I would prefer that we not be deluged with trivial questions that are
asked just to save someone else's time at the expense of my time.  But
these are my preferences based on my needs.  If you or anyone else feels
that it would be a good idea to encourage people to post off-topic or
trivial questions, just consider what long-term utility you will be
getting from this list.

There's probably no point to debating this.  Its not as if any decision
would be binding, and this really could just be considered more "noise"
on the list anyway.  Each person can make up their own mind and do as they
wish.  Personally, I'm not going to whine about every post that goes
off-topic or asks something really trivial, nor will I send nasty notes to
people who post jobs here.  Its not worth it and doesn't help in any case.
But now and then I think its worthwhile to point out that this list is
only as useful as we make it.

Chris

On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Ken Boettger wrote:

> Chris,
>
> I am not certain I agree with this precept. It is a controversial one and
a common one, I know. But I wonder if it is an appropriate view. I quess I
am a proponent of the "there is no stupid or silly questions" and that
forums are a place of learning.
>
> In addition, I have been in IT for 15 years and work with many languages
and tools.  It is very hard to keep everything straight. Many times I will
go to a list to get an answer to a simple issue that I cannot recall the
answer too. Yes, the answer is in the FAQ or in the manuals. And I think
they should be encouraged, but not enforced. The reason being that time is
of the essence for many of us.  On many occassions (both in the public and
private sector), I will post a question and then proceed with something else
until a response comes back.   From a statistical point of view, it might
take me 5 or 10 minutes to find and read through a FAQ or manual before I
find an anwser (if I can even remember where the manual is - or who borrowed
it last). Using a forum or list, I maybe type a concise question for 30
seconds, then spend another minute reading the responses - the point here
being that a five fold increase in efficiency is significant from a
temporal, financial and pro!
fe!
> ssional point of view.
>
> My question is, what is the position here?  I believe in democracy and
will go either way. But I have on many occasions posted simple questions to
this list. If such questions are not welcome, I will stop using this forum
in that regard.  And maybe we should consider an additional forum that
subscribes to a more open view including novice type questions?  There is a
definitely a need for such a forum.
>
> -Ken
>
> Ken Boettger
> boettgek@cwu.edu
> http://www.cwu.edu/~boettgek
> x2944