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Re: OFF-TOPIC Re: An information pirate attempts to develop oppor tunities!
Larry,
I almost have to believe that you are missing the point of the discussion. It
is about companies who abuse the H1B program by using offshore companies. If
my company wants to hire someone from Asia, so long as they are doing it
lawfully, I have no problem. But, to circumvent the process by using offshore
companies...is almost illegal. Therefore you, as well as anyone else, could be
at the mercy of the very labor laws that the federal government has passed.
Sam
--- "McCown, Larry" <MCCOWLA@MAIL.NORTHGRUM.COM> wrote:
> Or at least find a YAHOO political group that would love to carry on this
> conversation while the rest of us get back to what "Corporate America" is
> paying us to do.
>
> Are any of us naive or young enough not to recall when items were considered
> cheep if they were made in Japan or Taiwan as they are now with China. Or
> when was the last time you could carry on a conversation with a janitor or
> cleaning person in the same language or better yet order fast food and
> understand what you ordered! (In Southern California these are rare cases)
> How about trying to even find something that is made in the USA! Greed is
> at the bottom of the social ladder just as it is at the top. When we go to
> the store do we buy the most expensive item just because it was partially
> made in the USA or the cheaper item made in an underdeveloped country.
> Generic or name brand?
> How many of us would hang onto stock that was making items only in America
> but losing money because the customers where buying cheaper products made in
> other countries?
>
> "For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing
> for it, have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many
> grief's." 1 Timothy 6:10
>
> Answer the posts you want to help and ignore those you don't.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sam Spritzer [mailto:teknogeek9@YAHOO.COM]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 9:16 AM
> To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net
> Subject: Re: OFF-TOPIC Re: An information pirate attempts to develop
> opportunities!
>
>
> Ken,
> Honeywell is just the tip of the iceberg. Who knows who else is doing it.
> What we really need is a special interest group powerful enough to make an
> impact. Heck, I bet the AFL-CIO would certainly endorse and help one!
> Sam
>
>
>
> --- Ken Boettger <BoettgeK@CWU.EDU> wrote:
> > Honeywell? Outsourcing American jobs too???
> >
> > Thank you for making me aware of that. I will be writing them a letter and
> > talking to my congressman in regards to them too.
> >
> > -Ken
> >
> > >>> teknogeek9@YAHOO.com 10/02/02 05:40AM >>>
> > Paul,
> > I am not sure if you understand the content of my message. My beef is
> with
> > Corporate America more than the individual H1Bers themselves. Corporate
> > America is more to the blame than anything else. The H1B program was
> > established to address the issue of shortages of qualified programmers.
> But,
> > the H1B process is cumbersome and a royal pain in the butt to administer.
> > Hence, instead of being encumbered with that burden, they pass it off to
> the
> > American "subsidiaries" of offshore outsourcing companies. These
> companies
> > are
> > no different than the local personnel firm that serves as an "employer of
> > record" for many independent contractors. To me, using offshore companies
> to
> > get labor, cheap or not, is a way of circumventing the H1B process and
> > everything behind it.
> >
> > If Honeywell, or any other American corporation wants to hire someone from
> > another country, good for them! I'll applaud that effort because it
> levels
> > the
> > playing field. BUT, I will NOT endorse nor tolerate any efforts to
> exploit
> > loopholes in a process that was designed to be fair and equitable to all.
> > While it may not be illegal, its unethical, immoral and certainly goes
> > against
> > the patriotism of ones own country. For those who take advantage of
> > loopholes
> > in the process, please keep in mind Murphy's law..."what goes up, must
> come
> > down".
> >
> > Sam
> >
> > --- "O'riordan, Paul (EI05)" <Paul.O'riordan@HONEYWELL.COM> wrote:
> > > I'm not too sure that I like the tone of this string. It could be almost
> > > construed as imflammatory and racial and cultural predjudice.
> > > 1. you are assuming that everyone on the list is American or working
> there
> > > and everyone else is irrelevant. How nice of you to accept the H1Bs as
> > > people.
> > > 2. You are also forgetting that these Outsourcing companies have in the
> > main
> > > been set up by Corporate America as a means of expanding the Global
> economy
> > > and yes - getting cheaper labour.
> > > 3. Outsourcing occurs in almost every country in the world so I would
> like
> > > you to expand on how these places are all known to be Havens of
> espionage
> > > and piracy?
> > > I work for a multinational US based company with plants in over 100
> > > countries where yes - they do have the audacity to employ local talent
> -
> > > and we even in Ireland are a lot cheaper than the US alternative but we
> > also
> > > are losing out to the rise in "competition" from Asia - within our own
> > > company, but welcome to planet earth. You wanted capitalism and all of
> the
> > > world markets opened up? Well the traffic goes both ways and you have to
> > > accept it. We actually market ourselves as supplying quality product as
> > > programmers, which is in effect cheaper in the long run to use, compared
> to
> > > using cheaper, mass-produced work which needs constant attention, over
> runs
> > > budget and deadlines and then fails to work. $80 p/hour for 8 hours is
> > > cheaper than $40 and hour for something that takes twice as long to
> > develop,
> > > doesn't work, is not what the customer wanted and in the end, people
> like
> > us
> > > get the contract to "fix" the bugs and make it work.
> > > I know the point you are making but please think a little bit less
> > > parochially - especially when using a global mailing list.
> > > Regards,
> > > Paul
> > >
> > >
> > > Honeywell
> > >
> > > Paul O'Riordan Honeywell Application Services
> > > Application Developer Industrial Park, Cork Road
> > > PeopleSoft Applications, Waterford Ireland
> > >
> > > +353-51-309856
> > > Direct
> > > +353-51-309821 Fax
> > > +353-87-9083244 Mobile
> > > mailto:Paul.O'Riordan@honeywell.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Sam Spritzer [mailto:teknogeek9@YAHOO.COM]
> > > Sent: 02 October 2002 12:29
> > > To: SQR-USERS@list.iex.net
> > > Subject: OFF-TOPIC Re: An information pirate attempts to develop
> > > opportunities!
> > >
> > >
> > > Generally speaking, this does not belong here but I think some degree of
> > > flexibility should be allowed to post off topic discussions which can
> have
> > a
> > > dramatic impact on our ability to be an SQRer. For those of you who are
> > not
> > > interested, please stop here and delete this. I have added OFF-TOPIC to
> > the
> > > subject line for this reason.
> > >
> > > I agree with David. The proliferation of off-shore outsourcing has
> > exploded
> > > over the last year. My own personal experience can testify to that both
> > > from
> > > an employed and unemployed perspective. This article seems to best
> address
> > > the
> > > issue:
> > > http://www.bayarea.com/mld/siliconvalley/4154071.htm
> > >
> > > I am not sure if the feds are doing anything but keep in mind, the
> offshore
> > > companies have a headstart - they have formed American subsidiaries
> which
> > > essentially serve as nothing more than conduits to the actual
> transaction.
> > >
> > > I have nothing against those who work for offshore companies and I have
> > > worked
> > > alongside several. The biggest barrier, of course, is language and
> > culture.
> > > My only concern is my own livelihood as an SQRer. But, I also think it
> is
> > a
> > > two-edged sword. Given today's economy and changing times, I think
> > > contracted
> > > rates of $75 or more (contracting firms are excluded) is considered
> > > excessive.
> > > The laws of supply and demand require we adjust accordingly.
> > Unfortunately,
> > > many folks simply fail to see that hence, they are priced out of the
> > market.
> > >
> > > At this point, I am not doing anything about it. Maybe I should...or
> maybe
> > > this discussion can evolve into a more positive voice which will give
> more
> > > power to deal with the issue. Who knows...lets see where this leads.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Sam
> > >
> > >
> > > --- David Thorburn <thorburn@CONL.NET> wrote:
> > > > To the list:
> > > >
> > > > This SPAM from an offshore outsourcing pirate, Mr. Reddy, arrived in
> my
> > > > email today.
> > > >
> > > > I just wanted to send this to the list, and selected media to make
> sure
> > > that
> > > > other
> > > > American IT Professionals are aware that people like this, who
> represent
> > > > offshore
> > > > development centers full of hordes of slaves, working in countries
> where
> > > > copyright and
> > > > patent laws are not respected, and, where most toil in slave
> programming
> > > > mills for
> > > > little more than their kids make rolling cigarettes are after your
> jobs
> > > and
> > > > career.
> > > >
> > > > Their aim is to put us out of business and replace us with their IT
> > > slaves.
> > > >
> > > > At least the imported H1B's spend money and pay taxes while they are
> > here!
> > > >
> > > > H1B's are people, but foreign outsourcers are pirates!
> > > >
> > > > Write your elected officials and demand that they put a stop to
> offshore
> > > > outsourcing now!
> > > >
> > > > Do you want your credit, personnel, financial, and medical information
> > > being
> > > > programmed, stored,
> > > > copied, communicated, and manipulated by these pirates and by their
> > slaves
> > > > in foreign countries?
> > > >
> > > > How can we expect our governments laws, which are meant to protect us,
> to
> > > > possibly
> > > > be enforced in these foreign counties known to be havens for espionage
> > and
> > > > piracy?
> > > >
> > > > The time to act is now.
> > > >
> > > > Be watchful and aware of the threat to your career, your credit
> rating,
> > > and
> > > > your privacy.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > David
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Elite Outsource International, Inc" <reddys@eliteoutsource.com>
> > > > To: <reddys@eliteoutsource.com>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 7:27 PM
> > > > Subject: Introducing - Elite Outsource International, Inc
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > This is Srinivas Reddy from Elite Outsource International, Inc. I am
> > > > writing
> > > > > this letter to introduce myself and Elite's services of Software
> > > > > Development,
> > > > > Staff Augmentation (Consulting & Staffing), Project Management
> > > > > (On Site & Off Shore) and outsourcing services, that we offer in the
> > > > > Information Technology Industry.
> > > > >
> > > > > Please note that, I am well aware of the current market situation
> and
> > my
> > > > > goal is to better utilize this quiet time to get to know each other
> and
> > > > > establish a mutual business understanding, that can be fruitful and
> > > > > beneficial to both our firms, towards your any and all future needs
> in
> > > the
> > > > > IT Discipline.
> > > > >
> > > > > I take this opportunity to bring to your attention of Elite
> Outsource
> > > > > International, Inc. A company that provides technology-driven
> services
> > > > > dedicated to helping its customers deploy, maximize, and manage
> > > > Information
> > > > > Systems Solutions. Elite Outsource International, Inc is one of
> > > America's
> > > > > fastest growing and dependable Private Company. Learn more about
> Elite
> > > > > Outsource International at www.eliteoutsource.com.
> > > > >
> > > > > I look forward to establishing a mutually beneficial relation
> between
> > > us.
> > > > I
> > > > > request you to contact me anytime without hesitation for any and all
> > > needs
> > > > > you come across in IT Industry.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sincerely,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Srinivas Reddy
> > > > > General Manager.
> > > > >
> > > > > Elite Outsource International, Inc
> > > > > Reinforcing Excellence
> > > > >
> > > > > 3-14, Fox Run Drive,
> > > > > Plainsboro,
> > > > > New Jersey - 08536
> > > > > www.eliteoutsource.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Phone: 609-716-7604
> > > > > Fax: 609-716-4911
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Under Bill s.1618 Title III passed by the 105th U.S.Congress this
> mail
> > > > > cannot be considered
> > > > > Spam as long as we include contact information and a remove link for
> > > > removal
> > > > > from our mailing
> > > > > list. To be removed from our mailing list reply to
> > > > > mailto:reddys@eliteoutsource.com?Subject=Remove
> > > > > with 'REMOVE' in the subject heading and your email address in the
> > body.
> > > > > Include complete address
> > > > > and/or domain/aliases to be removed. If you still get the mails,
> please
> > > > call
> > > > > us at the numbers given
> > > > > above.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > =====
> > > ************************************************************
> > > "In the beginning, there was something...which exploded yet, they find
> > > nothing."
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
> > > http://sbc.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> > =====
> > ************************************************************
> > "In the beginning, there was something...which exploded yet, they find
> > nothing."
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
> > http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
>
> =====
> ************************************************************
> "In the beginning, there was something...which exploded yet, they find
> nothing."
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
=====
************************************************************
"In the beginning, there was something...which exploded yet, they find nothing."
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
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